lordagrabah

iTrader: (1)

The car is an 04 6speed with 141k on the odometer. Just recently the engine lost compression due most likely to a failed coolant seal (coolant temps around 240 F). The motor eventually lost compression and I purchased a reman from Mazda through a local dealership.

This is where it gets crazy. I had another certified shop install the reman motor only to find out it had no compression. I sent the car over to the dealer for a compression test and after 3 hours of diagnosing the car, the told me the motor indeed had no compression.

No problem, just have Mazda send me another one right? Wrong. Because it was installed at another shop, Mazda wants me to pay to uninstall the motor, ship it to them, and have them tear it down to decide the cause of the failed motor.

Right now, not sure what to do. Any advise?

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

iirc theres no warranty if its not installed by mazda. if they do it i think you get a 12 month warranty. im sure someone else will chime in tho. why didnt you just a mazmart or other vendors engine. mazda remans are hit and miss

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Parts sold by Mazda should have a parts warranty. That you had it installed elsewhere shouldn't automatically void it, and I'm not aware of anything you can do during installation that would have damaged it where it wouldn't have compression.

As for why, it's kinda odd since they have DOA remans that they install, shouldn't be any surprise if they run into one that someone else installed. I'd contact MNAO.

Curious, how much did you pay for the reman? Mazmart typically runs around $3,000-$3,500 and will never be DOA or even fail shortly after install. Good quality rebuild.

lordagrabah

iTrader: (1)

I was actually going to go through Mazmart but after speaking with Paul, he told me price point wise, a reman from Mazda was probably going to be the most cost effective way. (I'm not blaming Paul-for all you instigators out there lol.) Basically the reman was 3000 with 1000 core charge so in the end 2000. Now the dealer is saying that they don't even think Mazda does a compression test on the motor before they send them out.

And how does this work? If Mazda installs it and the motor is bad then I don't have to pay for additional labor but if another shop installs it, then that's it? They are giving me a 12/12 warranty but I have to pay for the motor to be taken out and shipped to Mazda. Then I have to wait for them to tear it down and get back with me.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, they aren't playing fair here.

Yes, removing the engine and reinstalling the new one is going to be on you most likely. I wouldn't expect the shop you used to pay for the labor, since it isn't their fault. And labor not at Mazda isn't something they can cover, though maybe something could be worked out since it's their failure that is causing the extra labor.

The engine though, they shouldn't even be putting you through that. Tear it down and inspect for......a crappy reman? Just the fact that it is a "new" reman that isn't getting compression tells you (and them) that it's a crappy reman! Are they expecting to find something like "oh, the rebuilder forgot to put in apex seals" or "oh, those irons shouldn't have been re-used."

I'd complain to MNAO. Their part failed, their test confirmed it, and it's not even that unusual for a DOA reman to happen. Why put you through all that?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

And I believe no compression test before shipping a reman out is normal. It probably shouldn't be normal, but it is. I'd expect that they could easily have a rig set up with a beefy electric motor to spin the engine at the right speed.

lordagrabah

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I'm trying to find someone over at MNAO that I can talk to. The dealership just told me that additional labor is on me because Mazda doesn't warranty the work of other shops. It's not the work of the other shop that needs a warranty, it's the additional cost associated with sending me a crappy product that costs around 13 hours of labor!!! Total install from the dealership is looking to be somewhere around 2500 for parts and labor and I'm facing a dilemma.

Do I just have the original shop take the motor out, send it to Mazda for an inspection, and hope the same thing doesn't happen again? Or do I just pony up and pay Mazda $1,400 to uninstall the motor, shipping costs to Mazda, and then install and parts?

Emery_

iTrader: (8)

Unless you some how got a really old reman that was sitting around for years that was not reman by mazda it should have had a compression test on it before it left the reman facility. There was a guy on the forums whose name I forgot... But he worked at the new reman facility that mazda opened in order to improve the quality on the remans, and he specifically said that all the engines had a compression test done on them before being approved and sent out. If I recall the numbers had to be in the high 8's I believe in order to pass.

Emery_

iTrader: (8)

I'm sorry I didn't answer this, and I personally think you should definitely NOT pay mazda to uninstall the motor or pay shipping costs. Put up a fight for that man, it's definitely not right for you to spend a lot of money on a busted motor like that.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

That was Sleepy-Z, and if you watched his posts, it started out with really detailed processes and descriptions, and then kept declining until a bit before he was told not to post any more he was bragging about how many engines he could slap together to get shipped out.

No compression test at the facility is the only real way that people could get DOAs, and it's hardly rare.

lordagrabah

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I hear you guys. I just talked to my shop who did the original labor and they worked out a deal with me for reinstall. Now I have to pay Mazda about 3 hours of labor for a diagnostic to tell me what I already knew, get the car towed back, get the motor taken out, and shipped to Mazda. Hopefully MNAO will help out with the whole situation. We're also going to do a compression test on the new motor when it comes in. Now I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that Mazda will hurry up with the inspection and send me a new reman. (Fingers crossed)

Emery_

iTrader: (8)

Thank you! Yes Sleepy-z...


His posts imply that they do test them, but that was 4 years ago or so... Hopefully it hasn't changed.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

The problem is that damage can occur with a hacked install. The engine may have not be properly primed, oil lines hooked up backwards (it's happened), no oil put in, no coolant put in before start-up, etc. Now would these things cause the motor to not run at all and have zero compression? Highly doubtful, but damage can occur if an engine is installed incorrectly which is why the warranty only applies if the dealer installs it.

gi-gio09

im stucking u !!! this thing need to get back on the road ASAP I say yes to RX8 and no to TC

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Agreed 9k. Can definitely screw up the engine, just not in a way that I'm aware of to get a zero compression result immediately.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah that would be pretty hard.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Well, there was that one guy that destroyed his motor when he dropped that nut or bolt in the LIM and didn't dig it out....

It would have to be something like that.

And the OP would probably have commented on something like "there was a loud bang and things were vibrating to pieces, metal shrapnel rattling through the exhaust" ...

Emery_

iTrader: (8)

Arca_ex

iTrader: (10)

On another note, regarding the original engine failure, 240f is still tolerable for coolant temps. Yeah it's high, but I've had my car sit in the 235-240F range on the track plenty of times and nothing has happened.

jrx13

Sorry to hear your troubles but this is common warranty practice no matter where you buy parts from. The parts dealer warranties your part only.

Just like buying something simple like an alternator or even spark plugs from a local store. The store will gladly replace your defective part, but you are on your own for the labor to remove and re-install. The same case could be said if you just happened to buy a defective motor from any other vendor. If they shipped you a motor, you paid someone to put it in, found out the motor is defective, they would want you to send it back, they are going to inspect it , and then send you another as long as they determine it wasn't an installation error. But the shop or person that installed it can't just give away labor for free either and has to charge you for doing the work twice.

Again, sorry to hear about that. Sucks.

lordagrabah

iTrader: (1)

jrx13 I see your point. I guess the issue boils down to whether they tested the motor before sending it out to me. If they didn't test the engine to ensure it was in working condition, then they should be liable. That's why business's are supposed to have quality control. Sending out a defective product, especially a motor, is unacceptable no matter how you look at it. Theoretically, there is a possibility that the shop made a mistake as I wasn't there for the install and wouldn't have realized it anyway if I was. I am banking on the motor being bad as it ran just like the original motor that lost compression. We tried to troubleshoot the problem and thought maybe the injectors were crossed up but there was no compression on the front rotor and a lot of misfires. From the first start up it ran like it was dying. There was no bang, no noise, no fuss. It just didn't run right.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

You have just been lucky is all and if you have temps in that range even on the track then you need to do some work. On factory coolant seals you are playing with fire at anything above 230F. My last reman died of a failed coolant seal and I know exactly when the damage occurred and it was one short lived trip to 240F at redline when the water pump belt failed mid corner. It was only for a minute until I found a safe place to pull over but that was enough to do it.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, I get paranoid when it hits 200F. My wife has strict instructions that if it hits 200F (starts flashing at 195F) to keep the revs under 3k and drive calmly. If it hits 210F, pull over and let it idle. If it keeps climbing, pop the hood, shut it off, and call me.

I know one guy on here that considers 180F overheating, and I'm guessing has no thermostat at all (plus some actual upgrades), since normal driving has him holding at 125F. Too low in my opinion, but it sure would take a bunch to overheat from that point.

lordagrabah

iTrader: (1)

Yeah 235-240 is no good. That's how mine was and felt fine, fabulous rather.....until it blew.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Depending on your climate and the conditions 200F is actually where you want to be. Now if you are getting 200F cruising on the highway in cool weather then you have issues unless its 100F+ outside. 200-205F in the summer in traffic in Texas is a guarantee on a stock RX-8. But anything up to 220F-230F when pushing it is ok in my book and what I have heard from builders. Rob at Pineapple said he has seen factory seals fail in the 220-230F range and I have read similar opinions elsewhere from other builders.

I have heavy duty Pineapple coolant seals in my new engine, hopefully they survive being beat on in Texas with a turbo attached to it.