Help, engine dies at idle after spark plug wire change
05-05-2008, 02:32 PM
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Help, engine dies at idle after spark plug wire change
did a search already and could not find any issue similar to mine after the plug wire change. The plug wire are from Racing Beat. My car is an 04 MT and has about 50k miles on it with new coils and spark plugs used for about 5k miles. Here is what I did.
I unplugged the negative terminal from the battery.
I removed a little canteen like part near the throttle body to get clearance to the coils.
Since I am changing the plug wires I decided to take the spark plugs out and clean it.
I wiped the tip with a clear rag then I sprayed the tip with some carborator cleaner (might be my problem here, not sure). I let it dry before putting it back into the engine.
I changed the plug wires out one at a time, when putting the wire on to the plug I had smeared some Di-electric??? gel on the end of the spark plug to prevent seizing (might be my problem here too).
After every thing was put back together, I started the engine and take it out and warm it up to operating temp.
Here is where my trouble starts. When the engine is at normal operating temp, I come to a stop and gear is in neutral the RPM drops to like 500 it bounces a little then dies.
I figure I might have a bad plug wire, so I put the old one back on and also wipe the gel of the spark plug in case it was also the issue. I still get the same problem where the RPM drops again and dies.
I did check for leaks on hoses for the intake but could not see any breaks. Could I have screwed up something while doing the maintenance on the wires and spark plugs. Sorry for the long post, but could anyone help me diagnose what my problem is? Thanks in advance for any help I can get to fix this problem. Also I order new spark plugs just in case but still waiting for delivery.
I unplugged the negative terminal from the battery.
I removed a little canteen like part near the throttle body to get clearance to the coils.
Since I am changing the plug wires I decided to take the spark plugs out and clean it.
I wiped the tip with a clear rag then I sprayed the tip with some carborator cleaner (might be my problem here, not sure). I let it dry before putting it back into the engine.
I changed the plug wires out one at a time, when putting the wire on to the plug I had smeared some Di-electric??? gel on the end of the spark plug to prevent seizing (might be my problem here too).
After every thing was put back together, I started the engine and take it out and warm it up to operating temp.
Here is where my trouble starts. When the engine is at normal operating temp, I come to a stop and gear is in neutral the RPM drops to like 500 it bounces a little then dies.
I figure I might have a bad plug wire, so I put the old one back on and also wipe the gel of the spark plug in case it was also the issue. I still get the same problem where the RPM drops again and dies.
I did check for leaks on hoses for the intake but could not see any breaks. Could I have screwed up something while doing the maintenance on the wires and spark plugs. Sorry for the long post, but could anyone help me diagnose what my problem is? Thanks in advance for any help I can get to fix this problem. Also I order new spark plugs just in case but still waiting for delivery.
05-05-2008, 03:15 PM
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did a search already and could not find any issue similar to mine after the plug wire change. The plug wire are from Racing Beat. My car is an 04 MT and has about 50k miles on it with new coils and spark plugs used for about 5k miles. Here is what I did.
I unplugged the negative terminal from the battery.
I removed a little canteen like part near the throttle body to get clearance to the coils.
Since I am changing the plug wires I decided to take the spark plugs out and clean it.
I wiped the tip with a clear rag then I sprayed the tip with some carborator cleaner (might be my problem here, not sure). I let it dry before putting it back into the engine.
I changed the plug wires out one at a time, when putting the wire on to the plug I had smeared some Di-electric??? gel on the end of the spark plug to prevent seizing (might be my problem here too).
After every thing was put back together, I started the engine and take it out and warm it up to operating temp.
Here is where my trouble starts. When the engine is at normal operating temp, I come to a stop and gear is in neutral the RPM drops to like 500 it bounces a little then dies.
I figure I might have a bad plug wire, so I put the old one back on and also wipe the gel of the spark plug in case it was also the issue. I still get the same problem where the RPM drops again and dies.
I did check for leaks on hoses for the intake but could not see any breaks. Could I have screwed up something while doing the maintenance on the wires and spark plugs. Sorry for the long post, but could anyone help me diagnose what my problem is? Thanks in advance for any help I can get to fix this problem. Also I order new spark plugs just in case but still waiting for delivery.
I unplugged the negative terminal from the battery.
I removed a little canteen like part near the throttle body to get clearance to the coils.
Since I am changing the plug wires I decided to take the spark plugs out and clean it.
I wiped the tip with a clear rag then I sprayed the tip with some carborator cleaner (might be my problem here, not sure). I let it dry before putting it back into the engine.
I changed the plug wires out one at a time, when putting the wire on to the plug I had smeared some Di-electric??? gel on the end of the spark plug to prevent seizing (might be my problem here too).
After every thing was put back together, I started the engine and take it out and warm it up to operating temp.
Here is where my trouble starts. When the engine is at normal operating temp, I come to a stop and gear is in neutral the RPM drops to like 500 it bounces a little then dies.
I figure I might have a bad plug wire, so I put the old one back on and also wipe the gel of the spark plug in case it was also the issue. I still get the same problem where the RPM drops again and dies.
I did check for leaks on hoses for the intake but could not see any breaks. Could I have screwed up something while doing the maintenance on the wires and spark plugs. Sorry for the long post, but could anyone help me diagnose what my problem is? Thanks in advance for any help I can get to fix this problem. Also I order new spark plugs just in case but still waiting for delivery.
Like I said, I don't know if this procedure helps or not but I did it anyway. After two days with no cat my CEL just shut off. The latest issue of "Import Tuner" did some parts swaps and dyno pulls and I can say that my engine has the exact same peaks and valleys in the power curve that they measured. Must be that "N" flash. I'm beginning to hate it.
Assuming there are no idle speed or initial timing issues;
1) Start the engine and warm it up completely. This means allowing one full cooling fan cycle. During warm up, make sure all accessories are turned off.
2) Idle the engine for more than 30s after the cooling fan has stopped, then turn the engine off.
3) Re-start the engine and drive the car in the following fashion:
A) Idle the engine in neutral for more than 7m35s.
B) Drive in first or second gears, between 25-46 mph, for more than 30s.
C) Drive in second or third gears, between 38-62 mph, for more than 20s.
D) Drive in fourth or fifth gears, between 32-62 mph, for more than 2m.
It is said in the Mazda repair manual that this procedure allows the PCM to measure all that it needs to ensure no further CEL's unless there is an outstanding issue.
CRH
Assuming there are no idle speed or initial timing issues;
1) Start the engine and warm it up completely. This means allowing one full cooling fan cycle. During warm up, make sure all accessories are turned off.
2) Idle the engine for more than 30s after the cooling fan has stopped, then turn the engine off.
3) Re-start the engine and drive the car in the following fashion:
A) Idle the engine in neutral for more than 7m35s.
B) Drive in first or second gears, between 25-46 mph, for more than 30s.
C) Drive in second or third gears, between 38-62 mph, for more than 20s.
D) Drive in fourth or fifth gears, between 32-62 mph, for more than 2m.
It is said in the Mazda repair manual that this procedure allows the PCM to measure all that it needs to ensure no further CEL's unless there is an outstanding issue.
CRH
05-05-2008, 03:29 PM
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Okay, I will give it a try when I get home from work but I don't have a CEL pop up for this though. Also I don't have the N flash. I will let you guys know later tonight if it fix the problem. Thanks.
05-05-2008, 03:38 PM
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Sorry, I just re-read the instruction BMonkey attached. I did the PCM reset when I put the Racing Beat wire on then took it out warm it up per the instruction but I can't idle the car as it just dies right away when I restart the car. Also the cooling fan never came on during the warm up. Is that because I have an M flash?
05-05-2008, 04:06 PM
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I was going to say a loose wire but I see that you put the stock ones back in.
Dead coil?
you sure you put the plugs back in the right order? T vs L plugs?
Dead coil?
you sure you put the plugs back in the right order? T vs L plugs?
05-05-2008, 04:42 PM
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I don't know if the dealer ever did a compression test on my car. They may have during some of the recalls. I will have to dig the paper work out and see if they did.
Jedi, I did the wires one at a time and when I was changing it out I also notice that the order of the coils are from left to right in this order, L1 T1 L2 T2. That was the order for the OEM. Coils was new from the dealer and only had about 5K miles on it so far.
Jedi, I did the wires one at a time and when I was changing it out I also notice that the order of the coils are from left to right in this order, L1 T1 L2 T2. That was the order for the OEM. Coils was new from the dealer and only had about 5K miles on it so far.
05-05-2008, 04:45 PM
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Sorry, I just re-read the instruction BMonkey attached. I did the PCM reset when I put the Racing Beat wire on then took it out warm it up per the instruction but I can't idle the car as it just dies right away when I restart the car. Also the cooling fan never came on during the warm up. Is that because I have an M flash?
When you pull the battery cable, let it sit, etc. then put it back on and turn on the car, does it idle? or does it immediately start to die? Or does it die when the revs start to drop from warm up idle speed? Or only when the car is at normal operating temperature? If it's immediately after you put the cable back on and start the car cold, pull one of the spark plugs now that they've had some run time and check out the tip to see if your carb cleaner has done something weird to it. ( if you pull off the left wheel and go through there it's really easy to get to them).
(and listen to BHR, he's way smarter than me, I'm still a proto-human).
05-05-2008, 04:59 PM
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The car dies when it is at operating temp and idle speed, after the car is warmed up. I did not check the spark plug tip yet since the car is able to start on cold but will check the spark plug tonight to be sure nothing is funky with it.
05-05-2008, 05:05 PM
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Nah if it works cold then I don't think it'd be the plug itself.
05-05-2008, 05:24 PM
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I may have to take to a dealer if it's a compression issue like Charles mentioned. Who would have thought that changing your spark plug wire and cleaning it would give you this kind of problem??? I am not at all upset, just frustrated that I try to keep up maintenance on my car and this happens. Oh well, you live and learn. I will try it with new plugs first and if that still give me the same problem I will have to get tow to the dealer this Friday. I will let you guys know what happens when I get the new plugs put in later this week. Thanks for the suggestions and some comforting words guys. I will post back later but if you guys think of anything else feel free to post I will keep checking this thread.
05-05-2008, 05:45 PM
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I may have to take to a dealer if it's a compression issue like Charles mentioned. Who would have thought that changing your spark plug wire and cleaning it would give you this kind of problem??? I am not at all upset, just frustrated that I try to keep up maintenance on my car and this happens. Oh well, you live and learn. I will try it with new plugs first and if that still give me the same problem I will have to get tow to the dealer this Friday. I will let you guys know what happens when I get the new plugs put in later this week. Thanks for the suggestions and some comforting words guys. I will post back later but if you guys think of anything else feel free to post I will keep checking this thread.
Charles didn't say it was a compression issue, he said when they do compression tests often times they forget to do an e-shaft reset. You should try to do an e-shaft reset too along with your PCM reset. I think it's computer related, your hardware is probably fine (if the wires were physically damaged most likely they'd not work regardless of hot or cold). Here's how to do the e-shaft reset.
I would suggest that anytime you have your PCM reflashed/updated, due to recall or otherwise, that you also perform the "eccentric shaft profile reset" procedure. To do it turn the ignition key to the "run" position but do not start the car, tap the brake pedal 20 times within an 8 second period(at which the oil pressure needle will sweep back and forth), and then turn the key off. Wait a moment and then start the car. I had issues after my 4206 recall update and they all cleared up once I did this. Actually, my car is back to running as well and strong as it was 18 months ago and it once again sounds like a monster with the race-pipe on. I am not sure if this reset procedure is a cure-all after reflashes but it can't hurt and it might just help. If the PCM and crankshaft/e-shaft are not in synch with each other the PCM has difficulties tracking e-shaft rotation and, as such, also has difficulties controlling the ignition system and others, too. Give it a try and let us know how it goes.
05-05-2008, 06:05 PM
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Sorry, I was thinking ahead of myself while typing. Yes, I did do the e-shaft and PCM reset twice when I was putting the RB wires in and putting the OEM back on, didn't help, so the other choice would be to get a compression test, let hope I don't have to do that. All accessories and a/c was off by default when both battery terminal was reconnected so I left it off. The engine is at 50K miles trouble free until now. Anything can happen unexpectedly, just wish it didn't happen to my car.
Last edited by mzrx; 05-05-2008 at 06:08 PM.
05-05-2008, 07:58 PM
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Charles, I don't have a small torque wrench. I should buy one. Anyway I tighten it the same way I did when I first changed the spark plug. When I tighten it to the point where I can't even tighten any more even if I wanted to. I am about to take the plugs out and check for anomaly and will check the plug opening for issue.
05-05-2008, 08:18 PM
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Guys, here is a pic of one of the leading plugs tip. Sorry for the bad quality pic, I took it with my camera phone. As you can see the plugs was brown when I took it out to clean and now the core looks sort of dark brownish to almost black. The nipple portion of the core is black but the tip is till shiny. Could these plugs going foul? Also the other end of the plug has a bit of scruff ring around close to the tip. There is no thread deformity on the opening of the plug on the engine. If these plugs are indeed going foul then I will have to wait for the new plugs to arrive and replace it and try running the car again. What do you guys think? Foul plugs?
05-05-2008, 09:08 PM
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Guys, here is a pic of one of the leading plugs tip. Sorry for the bad quality pic, I took it with my camera phone. As you can see the plugs was brown when I took it out to clean and now the core looks sort of dark brownish to almost black. The nipple portion of the core is black but the tip is till shiny. Could these plugs going foul? Also the other end of the plug has a bit of scruff ring around close to the tip. There is no thread deformity on the opening of the plug on the engine. If these plugs are indeed going foul then I will have to wait for the new plugs to arrive and replace it and try running the car again. What do you guys think? Foul plugs?
They don't look dark enough to be fouled.
05-05-2008, 09:31 PM
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Haha, you're right it's a guessing game w/ those pics. Anyway taking Charles advice on making sure the plugs are tighten properly after I took it out to check it, I tighten it to best I can without over tightening it Reset the PCM and e-shaft Started the engine let idle for a couple of minutes drove to warm it up. Seems okay after driving it for 5 minutes with it at operating temp and just when I pulled into the garage it did it again, RPM bounces at idle and then dies. Tried restarting it, car starts and then dies after the RPM drops back down to idle. Thanks for putting up with my rant and issue here. I am at a total lost at this point, wish I had the new spark plugs right now to confirm that it is not the issue but I am leaning toward spark plugs as that is the only major part I did real maintenance on. Can the PCM get f**k just by leaving the battery terminal off for like a couple of hours?
05-05-2008, 09:41 PM
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Haha, you're right it's a guessing game w/ those pics. Anyway taking Charles advice on making sure the plugs are tighten properly after I took it out to check it, I tighten it to best I can without over tightening it Reset the PCM and e-shaft Started the engine let idle for a couple of minutes drove to warm it up. Seems okay after driving it for 5 minutes with it at operating temp and just when I pulled into the garage it did it again, RPM bounces at idle and then dies. Tried restarting it, car starts and then dies after the RPM drops back down to idle. Thanks for putting up with my rant and issue here. I am at a total lost at this point, wish I had the new spark plugs right now to confirm that it is not the issue but I am leaning toward spark plugs as that is the only major part I did real maintenance on. Can the PCM get f**k just by leaving the battery terminal off for like a couple of hours?
05-05-2008, 09:47 PM
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If I were you, I will just replace the plugs, not like they're expensive to being with.
and, you did say u pulled your battery b4. So yes, your car WILL DIE in the next few drive cycle at stop light. It happens to almost every cars out there these days. Not just Rotary. Nothing to worry about (unless you mess up something in the reinstallation)
and, you did say u pulled your battery b4. So yes, your car WILL DIE in the next few drive cycle at stop light. It happens to almost every cars out there these days. Not just Rotary. Nothing to worry about (unless you mess up something in the reinstallation)
05-05-2008, 09:49 PM
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I shouldn't butt in here, but what did you mean by this in your first post?
I removed a little canteen like part near the throttle body to get clearance to the coils.
And did you put it back correctly?
Ray.........is it just me or is the picture below from his last post a bad plug? Looks like it is smashed. I can't see it too clearly.
I removed a little canteen like part near the throttle body to get clearance to the coils.
And did you put it back correctly?
Ray.........is it just me or is the picture below from his last post a bad plug? Looks like it is smashed. I can't see it too clearly.
Last edited by Mazurfer; 05-05-2008 at 09:53 PM.
05-05-2008, 09:58 PM
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If I were you, I will just replace the plugs, not like they're expensive to being with.
and, you did say u pulled your battery b4. So yes, your car WILL DIE in the next few drive cycle at stop light. It happens to almost every cars out there these days. Not just Rotary. Nothing to worry about (unless you mess up something in the reinstallation)
and, you did say u pulled your battery b4. So yes, your car WILL DIE in the next few drive cycle at stop light. It happens to almost every cars out there these days. Not just Rotary. Nothing to worry about (unless you mess up something in the reinstallation)
I shouldn't butt in here, but what did you mean by this in your first post?
I removed a little canteen like part near the throttle body to get clearance to the coils.
And did you put it back correctly?
Ray.........is it just me or is the picture below from his last post a bad plug? Looks like it is smashed. I can't see it too clearly.
I removed a little canteen like part near the throttle body to get clearance to the coils.
And did you put it back correctly?
Ray.........is it just me or is the picture below from his last post a bad plug? Looks like it is smashed. I can't see it too clearly.
05-05-2008, 10:04 PM
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BMonkey, I pulled the negative terminal and left is off for a good bit of time before I put it back on when I was working with the spark plug. This was stated in the manual.
Nycgps, I ordered new plugs already just waiting for delivery. Should I see the same problem when I put the new plugs in? I didn't have the stalling problem when I last had my coils changed by the dealers. I had previously replace my spark plug before and could not figure out why I had a CEL. So I took it to the dealer and they said I had bad coils so I got that changed.
Mazurfer, here is the screen of the part I removed and it only goes back in one way. The second picture was taken at angle plus the bad quality of the pic it does look like it crush but I checked it with another leading plug and they don't look like it is crush.
Nycgps, I ordered new plugs already just waiting for delivery. Should I see the same problem when I put the new plugs in? I didn't have the stalling problem when I last had my coils changed by the dealers. I had previously replace my spark plug before and could not figure out why I had a CEL. So I took it to the dealer and they said I had bad coils so I got that changed.
Mazurfer, here is the screen of the part I removed and it only goes back in one way. The second picture was taken at angle plus the bad quality of the pic it does look like it crush but I checked it with another leading plug and they don't look like it is crush.
Last edited by mzrx; 05-05-2008 at 11:24 PM.
