Power Loss and Off Sound - Dealer Did Not Fix
 

Afternoon, all...

My car: 2009 RX-8 R3, 36.5k miles

Last Thursday about 5 minutes after starting and driving my car, I noticed a very sudden and profound loss of power and the sound of the car was extremely off. It sounds more of a groan and not the normal smooth whir. I noticed it at a stop sign because when I went to take off, I almost stalled the car; that's how much of a power loss this really is. I'd put it at a 30-40% loss from normal. There are no other symptoms; no CEL or anything like that. The problem is also intermittent... it goes away for small amounts of time but is there more often than not, especially soon after I start the car.

I took it to the dealer (yeah, probably a mistake, I know) because I also needed a few other minor things done. To remedy the power loss/sound issue, they replaced the spark plugs and did a Zoom Power Engine Cleaner process. They called me and told me all was finished and to come pick it up. The advice they gave me was to never use Wawa gas (I live in PA) and to fill up with good gas from Sunoco or Shell to avoid carbon buildup in the future.

I picked up the car last night... I got in the car and the issue was still there undoubtedly. I walked right back in and told the senior service tech. He reminded me that I had just started the car and there's a variable redline. I told him I've had the car for two years and I'm well aware of the variable redline, and that there is definitely something wrong. He grabbed the "resident RX expert" of the dealership and we went for a quick ride. He said it sounded like and pulls like every 8 he's been in and that the car wasn't throwing any codes out.

He's wrong. I know the sound and feel of my car like a 6th sense, and something is definitely off. Like I said, it's easily a 30-40% power loss. It almost makes me stall my car when I take off as I'm so used to controlling the clutch/gas with full power. In hindsight, I should have had them do a compression test while it was there but alas, I did not. After doing some of my own research on here, the best thread that sounds like my issue is this one:

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tec...r-loss-130996/

He even said that his engine makes a groaning noise, exactly like my car is. Everything he explained is spot on; the hesitation when I press the pedal, extremely slow RPM climb... only problem is that the OP never posted that his problem was resolved by replacing his coils, but the very fact that he never posted again could be because it fixed the problem and he didn't have to return for more help.

I'm hoping to get some expert opinions on my situation and make sure before I invest in new coils. I'll probably be investing in BHR coils. Any replies would be greatly appreciated!

-Aaron

At 36K miles, I would definately suspect that your ignition is on its way out. You mentioned they changed spark plugs, so take the next step and replace the coils. You can get a set at your local advanced autoparts for around 80 bucks using the various coupon codes online.

Thanks for the prompt response, paimon. I will move forward with replacing the coils. Time to bust out the POS '97 Blazer for a bit...

Fresh coils would be a good idea given your mileage (even if they don't rectify the problem).


I was not aware that the Zoom engine cleaner could be done on a series 2?

Alright, I did order some tonight. I got OEM Rev. B coils and a set of wires as well. I'm not sure what the Zoom cleaning is really besides to clean carbon buildup; I'll do some research quick.

Zoom cleaner is nothing more than mazda's "seafoam" treatment. It is pretty much the dealer's "go-to" when they can't figure out a problem.

Should have went for Rev. C coils?

not readily available in the states except if imported by an individual or company (mazmart).

no one has really proven that they are better anyway.... just your typical forum non-sense and ass-umptions that they are.

I think the whole coil pack story on series 2 is an ass-umption to be replaced a 30 some miles. im passing 95 000 (km), change the plug every 50k, and it still Puuurrrrsss like new and no loss in performance what so ever.

I keep beleiving that if a coil would have gone he would have had serious missfires

Yeah, I couldn't really find Rev C coils and the ones I did find were really expensive. I don't have a ton of cash right so I went with the Rev B coils and NGK wires, otherwise I'd have sprung for the BHR set. If this doesn't fix my problem, I'll be sure to post back. Oh, and thanks for the info about the Zoom cleaner paimon.

Update... just got done replacing the coils and wires. Totally fixed the problem! The dead spot I had around 7k previously (I'd read that was typical for an 8) is gone. The car has a whole new life.

The 2 leading coils had pretty serious white marks on them.

Thanks for all your help guys, I'm super happy to have my baby back to normal. So much for the dealer knowing best, eh?

-Aaron

Thumbs up sir, glad you are back on the road again.

I can't start a new thread so I'll post here because it's similar. like op, I had been having
ignition issues. Replaced coils, plugs and wires, fixed the problem, car was good as gold. After maybe 3k miles, the power loss is back again, same symptom. It seems my car is toasting ignition parts prematurely. It is still drivable but has lost its pep. No increased response past half throttle, 5th and 6th gears are almost worthless now. I want to get to the root cause because I don't want to replace ignition parts every oil change. Any ideas? 09 r3 with 39k on it all fresh fluids and ignition parts, bg44k about 3k ago. No codes, no unsteady idle just a decent loss of power through the whole range. Oh and has updated motor mounts too. Jerks on accel and decel too, although not as much now with power loss. Ideas?

Hello, correct me if I am wrong, but, did you not buy cheap Coils from somewhere?..this 'could' be part of your problem.

Most eBay Coils are definitely pirates (knock offs) and do not use.

Leads, Plugs, Coils connected correctly?

Next perhaps engine compression test IF you believe it is not Ignition related.

I did have cheap coils but replaced with oem and fixed the issue. This has happened v twice now and replacing coils and wires has fixed it. I'm fairly sure something ignition has crapped out but I want to know why mine seem to go out so early. Just looking for ideas. Car does hesitate to start sometimes after sitting overnight. Hot starts Ok. Could it be compression fouling coils and wires prematurely? I'm a tech so cars are pretty straightforward to me but rotary engines are new to me so looking into possible causes

And yes everything is connected right :)

Most issues are always Ignition in RE's..

Where did you buy your OEM Coils from?

It is not normal for Ignition (Coils) to go out after only 3K.

No, compression test is just that, just a few questions do you pre-mix at all?, how much engine oil are you topping up with and when do you top off?

Alternator?, could you have any problems there, what is the condition of your Battery, and how old it is?

CAT... it could be toast if you have one, no codes, I guess you have a CAT?

No pre mix. I top off just after it gets half a quart low never over fill it. Oem from atkins in Mazda coil boxes so they are true Mazda coils. Everything was fine for almost 3k and I changed the oil and like 2 days after that it just happened again. Sucks. Haven't checked battery or alternator guess that would be a wise choice but I can't wrap my head around the premature failure. I bought the car with 33k on it and have gone through two sets of full ignition parts. I'll check battery and alternator and get you a reply. Thanks

You may not have seen as I edited my post...what about your CAT?

Edit: BTW give her some pre-mix, Rotaries do like it, please don't take this too literally but in some case, some, you
can get a slight improvement in power when you pre-mix as it can improve compressions, (more internal lubrication).
Put in about 300 mil (8-9 ounces in full tank gas) and try it, it might just surprise you.

It can (in some cases) also shows you how your compressions are (dyno butt), re: performance.

Have not checked the cat yet. Just unbolt and shake right? Look for loose substrate?

Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, but I think my rotary went out and I really am not good with cars and things like that Does anyone know a good repair place in Southern California. I did replace the battery but the AAA guy said it might need to be rebuilt.

Maybe direct me in the right direction? I'll keep on reading the thread but I'm going to have to find a mechanic and don't want to tow it all over the place.

Any help would be appreciated. I just love that car and would hate to have to get a new one.


Again, sorry if this is the wrong place.


Thanks for the thread though.

Tim.


Check engine light is on as well as battery.

Kings8, if you can borrow an OBD 2 scanner, find out what your Check Engine Light(s) is/are. If you are really adamant of bring it to a mechanic, call and speak with Tony at Lucky 7 Racing. They deal with everything rotory located in Duarte, just right on the 210/605 freeway.

So upon looking at fuel trims, they look Ok in my opinion, 3.9 ltft 0 sftf but the rear o2 has its own short term trim, not sure why and that v is reading v almost plus 30 at idle. V reading is .855 which is very rich for a normal o2. anyone know anything about rear o2 trims? Is this normal? Or could it be causing me problems? No codes still. Did a back pressure test at the c rear o2 and that was 0 psi so unless only the front of cat is clogged I think I can rule that out. Didn't get to looking inside cat yet. Alternator putting out 14 v by the way. Anything you see bad ash?

Awesome thanks. I probably will take it there. That's not even far off to get towed.

But I may try the ob2 scanner, but I'm going to have to figure how. Found a vid on youtube, And then googled and found a thread here. :bowdown:

Oh but my car isn't running at all. Just won't turn over.

Anyway. Thanks again for the help. :bowdown:

You're welcome. They are the shop whom installed a reman' engine in my car. Check the CEL, you may be able to isolate the problem and fix it yourself. This forum has a lot of information covering the basic D.I.Y.s and discussions, you just have to browse.