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ASH8 wrote: "Did you have some sort of security package added when you bought your R3? Or may be something in US regulations..?"
My car had a cheap dealer installed shock sensor when I bought it. It never worked correctly in conjunction
with the advanced keyless system.
I had the sensor removed, disabled and documented by a different dealership.
I regard to the vin stickers, there is 16-20 tamper resistant stickers(VINTRS) on any given car sold in the U.S., 5 under the hood,( one on each fender, one on the hood, stamped in the firewall ( 10 millimeter numbers and letters) and in one other place).
There is one VINTRS on each door (4), trunk lid (1), on each rear quarter panels.(2) and on the bumper covers.
The stickers are used to help identify a stolen car.
I was wondering why the P66M 6 Speed Manual Transmission Assembly on the 09's are a different Part Number between the US (P6Y1-03-000) and Rest of World or RHD (P611-03-000).
Turns out the 3-4 ratio's (Gears) used on the RHD RX-8 are not the same as LHD US S2 RX-8.
After I did a complete part number cross check/comparison it revealed the differences.
By Part Number the US uses the same as NC Miata, therefore same ratio's.(P610-17-303A and P610-17-305).
But the RHD (General, Australian, Japan, Europe) has it's own 3-4 gears, sorry still working on ratio #. (P611-17-303A and P611-17-305)
Ash, mate, the only country in Europe which is right hook is the UK, the rest of Europe is LHD. Are the LHD European 09's different to the UK RHD 09's ?
Series I and Series II 6 Speed Manual Trans Ratio's....Australian Spec
Series I and Series II 6 Speed Manual Trans Ratio's....Australian Specification (Rest Of World), taken from Aussie Mazda Brochures (they appear to be correct)..
As I said North American ratio's were detailed here a few years back on page one of this thread...but is not quite correct, 4th gear ratio changed, plus the 6th ratio for R3 (S2) is wrong.
Not certain if I mentioned here but the NC Miata/MX-5 also received this beefed up RX-8 6 Speed MT with the better Gears/Synchro's, Shift Rods and Forks in the NC2 from 2010 production (approx).
The internals are identical as the last RX-8 Spirit R's RX-8's, just the casing is different for the Rotary Bell Housing and Extension Housing Tunnel...that is all.
Originally the P66M was made for the NC Miata/MX-5 in house by Mazda and improved on by engineers to today where I believe it is the best 6 speed MT for RWD applications for production purposes...it is a sheer joy to use and change.
So, YES, if any Series I owner can afford and want to invest in the new P66M MT, they will fit your 2004-2008 RX-8, and can be bought in US for under $2600 BRAND NEW!!, compare the Miata Box, (Exactly the same internally) it is over $4000 new!!..
Ash, mate, the only country in Europe which is right hook is the UK, the rest of Europe is LHD. Are the LHD European 09's different to the UK RHD 09's ?
..??
I guess the "right hook" is the Driving Position??
ALL 09's are the same MT for Europe, like Gear Ratio's, only North America has a different 3rd and 4th Gear Ratio in P66M Series II Trans.
Does anyone know if the 6th gear itself can be swapped from the s2 trans to the s1 trans? Or if there are even longer 6th gears available to swap onto either trans (like 0.700 or 0.650)? Having a 5.1 rear makes for some crappy highway rpms, and a longer 6th could help.
It’s unlikely to be interchangeable. S1 was made by Aisin, S2 is made by Mazda. If it exists then it’s likely to be found in Japan, but it won’t be anywhere near that low.
On the S1 RX8 trans you can buy a different countershaft and close-ratio 1st -2nd gears (from 3.760-2.269 to 3.014-2.062). There’s also a less steep 6th gear swap that converts from .843 to 0.862 and also a more steep 0.795. That’s about the range change you could expect if such a gear exists for the S2.
I can’t recall ever seeing these offered for the S2 trans, but again if it exists then likely in Japan and possibly advertised more for the NC MX5 that uses the same transmission as the S2. You have to remember that there weren’t nearly as many S2 RX8s produced as compared to the S1. They made a lot of NC MX5s though. Good luck.
well the R&P you can buy reasonably from a guy in Australia on Ebay; 5.1, 5.3, and 5.8 ratios
You can probably get PAR Engineering in Australia to build a custom 6th gear synchro pair for you, but take whatever date/lead-time he gives you and multiply it by 3 or 4 (might take a year or more).
I’m still waiting on some 5-spd dog-gear racing trans parts that were supposed to ship in April ... sigh, the owner is a nice guy otherwise though. He just can’t predict or keep a schedule or something.
you only need a 0.785 6th gear with the 5.125 R&P to equal the S2 6th/4.777 combination. Going too steep is not a good move as an OE Renesis engine doesn’t have good low rpm torque and will either require additional throttle input to maintain speed or possibly bog too easy and not be able to maintain speed on an incline or against a strong head wind.
So the mazda part number for the 6th gear in the s1 Aisin box is Y60117309. Anyone have any idea how to get that 6th gear and synchro part numbers for the s2 transmission? I'm willing to see how the fit works when i start digging into my spare s1 trans rebuild.
Also my math tells me that there is a bigger diff between 0.785@5.125 and 0.787 @ 4.777 than one may think.
Also, oddly enough the part number for the 6th gear for the 04 Miata (which I thought was the same as the S1 transmission) is different - Y61117631.
Last edited by sil80drifter; Jun 26, 2020 at 10:50 AM.
Edit to add:
0.785@5.125x3500rpm = 67mph
0.787@4.777x3500rpm = 72 mph
Close enough..
This is really splitting hairs and is turning a ton of work and expense into an imperceivable benefit. All for overdrive... lol
Last edited by Kimura; Jun 26, 2020 at 11:32 AM.
Reason: ETA
sorry, I was using the S1 0.843 6th gear ratio because some website had it listed as the same and it’s not, I didn’t know it off the top of my head like the S1
but then I also didn’t realize you were asking about putting the S2 6th on the S1
so again, using the S1 OE ratios:
(0.843 x 4.444)/5.125
= 0.731
or if you had the S2 rear gear instead
(0.843 x 4.777)/5.125
= 0.786
or pretty close to the S2 6th gear which is maybe why you’re asking
but you’ll need both gears and all the synchro parts to match up and I’d be surprised if that happens. The need the exact same shaft centerline spacing, machined steps, shaft splines/diameters, thicknesses, etc to all match up exactly.
and again the S1 was manufactured by Aisin and the S2 was manufactured by Mazda. It’d be pretty incredible for it to match up in every aspect needed.
but you might search for walter motorsport in gainesville, ga because they build both for racing and might be able to answer the question.
S1 Aisin trans was about the same as the NB Miata 6-spd
S2 Mazda trans was about the same as the NC Miata 6-spd
but then I also didn’t realize you were asking about putting the S2 6th on the S1
so again, using the S1 OE ratios:
(0.843 x 4.444)/5.125
= 0.731
or if you had the S2 rear gear instead
(0.843 x 4.777)/5.125
= 0.786
or pretty close to the S2 6th gear which is maybe why you’re asking
but you’ll need both gears and all the synchro parts to match up and I’d be surprised if that happens. The need the exact same shaft centerline spacing, machined steps, shaft splines/diameters, thicknesses, etc to all match up exactly.
and again the S1 was manufactured by Aisin and the S2 was manufactured by Mazda. It’d be pretty incredible for it to match up in every aspect needed.
but you might search for walter motorsport in gainesville, ga because they build both for racing and might be able to answer the question.
S1 Aisin trans was about the same as the NB Miata 6-spd
S2 Mazda trans was about the same as the NC Miata 6-spd
and they specialize in both for Miata racing use
.
Dude! Bro! Señor! Now that is some usefull info, I'll try to get in touch with those folks and see if they make custom gears for the s1 box. To me, being able to comfortably cruise in 6th at say 4k rpm doing 80mph (what stock s1 does roughly) is a big deal.
Since i'm going to rebuild a transmission anyway, and possibly machine some of those metal spacers to replace the plastic ones, per the above comments from the racing fella, I'd go through the trouble to see if I can have my dream combo of autoX with short gears and cruise to autoX at nearly stock gear ratios.
With that in mind, I prolly shoulda gotten the 5.3. Btw, the USD to AUD fx rate is great right now, so I can only recommend that folks get their ring n pinions now.
Last edited by sil80drifter; Jun 27, 2020 at 06:18 AM.
it takes special equipment and knowledge to make gears. You should contact Haysam @ PAR Engineering for that. As for the other, they get really busy and I wouldn’t take it personal if they maybe don’t reply for that question. They likely have the ability or knowledge to know though if you can get them to respond.
When I say 'overthrowing' the gear, I mean pushing the shift hub past where it needs to be to engage the gear. I'm not sure why, but both 3rd and 4th gear on the RX-8 Aisin box are without a 'fence' to keep the hub from going too far. The shift hub slider teeth are what drives the car, and there are matching teeth on the gear itself. When you shift into a gear, you engage the hub (splined to the shaft) to the gear (free spinning on the shaft.) Most gears have a raised flange on the hub-teeth to 'catch' the hub slider and keep it from going too far. Curiously, neither 3rd or 4th in the Aisin box have this flange.
I just built two MX-5 boxes today - and it was a great reminder of how much better it is. Very stout gearbox. And the great thing is that it's not an outsourced Aisin box, it's all Mazda. It's a very nicely designed box. As I said, it has a few flaws, but Mazda is aware of them, and fixing them.
I'll keep this up to date with everything we find out... I know that '09 tranny is still sitting in the tech center at Irvine. Hopefully they will send it to us to test! We'll have the tech notes on the '09 soon too, and that should have the ratios so we can confirm that. Interestingly, the project leader for the car doesn't even know if the ratios are the same yet! I'll report back as I get more info!
I have recently bought an 09 series 2 and its stuck in what I believe is 4th (6 speed mt) the guy recently told me it got stuck while he was doing donuts slamming gears. I've spent a month trying to find answers and this is the first thing I've found. Do you believe he could've "over thrown" it? I've driven it in what ever gear and won't budge shifter wise. Would it be the actual gear inside it or a fork? Please give me some feed back🙏
Series I and Series II 6 Speed Manual Trans Ratio's....Australian Spec
..??
