2009 R3 immobilizer
06-15-2011, 08:17 PM
#51
Super Moderator
Denny,
Now the Ignition and Starter and Head Lamp relays are ALL the same (L110-67-730, BLACK with NAIS printed on top),
So there are 3 of the same Relays, I would take out the Head Lamp Relay and put in the Ignition Relay spot, and even try and swap the "starter" relay?
1. Ignition.
2. Starter
3. Head Lamp
These 3 are all next to each other in main fuse box next to 10,15,20 and 30 AMP Fuses.
Now the Ignition and Starter and Head Lamp relays are ALL the same (L110-67-730, BLACK with NAIS printed on top),
So there are 3 of the same Relays, I would take out the Head Lamp Relay and put in the Ignition Relay spot, and even try and swap the "starter" relay?
1. Ignition.
2. Starter
3. Head Lamp
These 3 are all next to each other in main fuse box next to 10,15,20 and 30 AMP Fuses.
Last edited by ASH8; 06-15-2011 at 08:38 PM.
06-15-2011, 08:22 PM
#52
Super Moderator
The only other possible one which might be used or called as the "main" relay is what they call a Circuit Relay... AJ51-18-821, there are 4 of these the same..SKY LIGHT BLUE ONES
1. Circuit Opening Relay
2. EGI Relay
3. ETV Relay
4. Fuel Pump Relay
AJ51's are the first two at the front.
and two in the middle diagonally opposite each other.
1. Circuit Opening Relay
2. EGI Relay
3. ETV Relay
4. Fuel Pump Relay
AJ51's are the first two at the front.
and two in the middle diagonally opposite each other.
Last edited by ASH8; 06-15-2011 at 08:36 PM.
06-15-2011, 08:32 PM
#53
Super Moderator
OH. and..GOOD LUCK MATE!
06-17-2011, 09:22 AM
#54
Thanks!
I could never even attempted this without your help.
I tried the short cuts of switching the relays, known good ones from my other car and that didnt work.
So I am tracing this a little at the time.
I have power to the room fuse ( i didnt realize it shared a common ground with several other fuses) and currently tracing those blue and red wires coming from it (never knew that the room fuse has 2 wires coming from the power side) through all the connectors inbetween.
I hate having to remove all that wrap/loom, but there ends up being more than one circuit using that same color of wire and it is difficult to trace without direct visualization.
Nothing major seen so far but I havent gotten through it all yet.
Stay tuned!
rotor on mate
OD
I could never even attempted this without your help.
I tried the short cuts of switching the relays, known good ones from my other car and that didnt work.
So I am tracing this a little at the time.
I have power to the room fuse ( i didnt realize it shared a common ground with several other fuses) and currently tracing those blue and red wires coming from it (never knew that the room fuse has 2 wires coming from the power side) through all the connectors inbetween.
I hate having to remove all that wrap/loom, but there ends up being more than one circuit using that same color of wire and it is difficult to trace without direct visualization.
Nothing major seen so far but I havent gotten through it all yet.
Stay tuned!
rotor on mate
OD
06-17-2011, 04:29 PM
#55
Super Moderator
OK, not that..
Denny, I really think it is somewhat pointless tracing wiring..I think, because one night it was working and the next day it was not, without touching or moving the car, so unless rats have chewed through some cable, this is just a lot of time and frustration.
I would be doing this next, but somehow you will need dealer assistance for re-programming and $$'s.
Look I am not an Auto Electrician and have limited experience with present electronic systems.
I am thinking your Immobiliser and Keyless Entry Modules, IN particular the Immobiliser one.
Now the US has a slightly different set up to the rest of the world..so I cant give you part numbers for 09, I just know you run different protocols and "panic" alarms...we don't.
And the credit card key thing was only used in S1 RX-8 here (Shinka)...thank god!
Here the Immobiliser is about $600, I think a similar would be about $300 new in US for LHD US Model.
It is quite possible that your Immobiliser unit controls power to your PCM?.
Which has to be coded with your key card thing..at a dealer.
You said..
Where are you see a immobiliser code flashing?
I am still thinking the 2 modules have lost their codes for whatever reason, or one is defective.
Denny, I really think it is somewhat pointless tracing wiring..I think, because one night it was working and the next day it was not, without touching or moving the car, so unless rats have chewed through some cable, this is just a lot of time and frustration.
I would be doing this next, but somehow you will need dealer assistance for re-programming and $$'s.
Look I am not an Auto Electrician and have limited experience with present electronic systems.
I am thinking your Immobiliser and Keyless Entry Modules, IN particular the Immobiliser one.
Now the US has a slightly different set up to the rest of the world..so I cant give you part numbers for 09, I just know you run different protocols and "panic" alarms...we don't.
And the credit card key thing was only used in S1 RX-8 here (Shinka)...thank god!
Here the Immobiliser is about $600, I think a similar would be about $300 new in US for LHD US Model.
It is quite possible that your Immobiliser unit controls power to your PCM?.
Which has to be coded with your key card thing..at a dealer.
You said..
We think the immobiliser code is flashing because the computer is not talking to anything
I am still thinking the 2 modules have lost their codes for whatever reason, or one is defective.
06-17-2011, 04:48 PM
#56
Super Moderator
Denny..
Go to your PDF Wiring Diagram..I don't know if you have done this..
Go to
BODY Interior, then Keyless Control Module, see 3E and 3F...??
That will test your Antenna Coil for Immobiliser which you still should have if your car has a steering lock or turn button.
Go to your PDF Wiring Diagram..I don't know if you have done this..
Go to
BODY Interior, then Keyless Control Module, see 3E and 3F...??
That will test your Antenna Coil for Immobiliser which you still should have if your car has a steering lock or turn button.
06-18-2011, 08:21 PM
#57
thanks I will try that.
I am getting the immobilizer code (series of flashing lights from the dash display) for no communication and the ob2 port will not connect to the computer. I get ok voltage at the can bus connecters on the ob2 port.
The old if you have a cel light showing in the dash then the computer has power ---is WRONG. I disconnected the entire ecu from the harrness and turned the switch on---cel showing--lol!
The electrical schematic states that those pins at the pcm will have B+ voltage during all circumstances.
Just got back from Road Atlanta. So tomorrow i dive into this.
I am thinking that a connection is askew somewhere.
I am getting the immobilizer code (series of flashing lights from the dash display) for no communication and the ob2 port will not connect to the computer. I get ok voltage at the can bus connecters on the ob2 port.
The old if you have a cel light showing in the dash then the computer has power ---is WRONG. I disconnected the entire ecu from the harrness and turned the switch on---cel showing--lol!
The electrical schematic states that those pins at the pcm will have B+ voltage during all circumstances.
Just got back from Road Atlanta. So tomorrow i dive into this.
I am thinking that a connection is askew somewhere.
06-20-2011, 10:32 AM
#58
well no more immobilizer code--key light comes on for about 2 sec and then it goes out. I am getting power to one of 3 of the pcm pins that is supposed to B+ under all conditions. I have not found anything major. I am just cleaning connectors and grounds at this point.
getting too dang hot to fool with it
getting too dang hot to fool with it
06-20-2011, 12:00 PM
#59
1BA is the "room fuse" power. Don't think this will cause a no start because lots of people have blown this one before.
1BE is EGI COMP 2 fuse. Did you check this one already?
Any more info so I can try to help?
06-20-2011, 07:02 PM
#60
power to all appropriate fuses and relays in the box's
ok new findings--just now
pin 1AW B+ power only with switch on--- main relay--should be under any condition
pin 1BE---no power--suppose to be B+ main relay--should be under any condition
pin 1BA---no power --- back up power---battery--suppose to be B+ under any condition
that are all the power supply pins to the ecu
Main Grounds:
pin 1BB--good
pin1BD--good
pin 1BH--no ground!!
Now to find out where the power comes from and where that ground is.
my immobilizer light is flashing again--battery voltage got to low before--that makes sense.
OD
ok new findings--just now
pin 1AW B+ power only with switch on--- main relay--should be under any condition
pin 1BE---no power--suppose to be B+ main relay--should be under any condition
pin 1BA---no power --- back up power---battery--suppose to be B+ under any condition
that are all the power supply pins to the ecu
Main Grounds:
pin 1BB--good
pin1BD--good
pin 1BH--no ground!!
Now to find out where the power comes from and where that ground is.
my immobilizer light is flashing again--battery voltage got to low before--that makes sense.
OD
06-20-2011, 09:00 PM
#61
Super Moderator
OD...
Yep, I would be tracing back to where those wires are exactly from and back to..
So can you tell me what are the colors of the 3 wires..for..??
Just so can also double check, as I can do an On-line color trace, so PM me your total VIN Number please mate.
pin 1AW--Color?
pin 1BE---Color?
pin 1BA---Color?
I am pretty sure they go back to your Immobiliser Modules, but give me the VIN and color details and I should be able to tell you good info!?
Yep, I would be tracing back to where those wires are exactly from and back to..
So can you tell me what are the colors of the 3 wires..for..??
Just so can also double check, as I can do an On-line color trace, so PM me your total VIN Number please mate.
pin 1AW--Color?
pin 1BE---Color?
pin 1BA---Color?
I am pretty sure they go back to your Immobiliser Modules, but give me the VIN and color details and I should be able to tell you good info!?
06-20-2011, 09:03 PM
#62
Super Moderator
For Ground List and location see...
GROUND-EARTH-NEGATIVE... 2Y-B
GROUND-EARTH-NEGATIVE... 2Y-B
06-21-2011, 10:08 AM
#63
1AW & 1BE both come from the EGI COMP 2 10amp fuse. You said you have power on both sides of this fuse? It is a BLACK with a BLUE tracer (B/L). The wire runs from the fuse box & branches off to the PCM - 1AW & 1BE and also branches off to the air pump relay coil side. (PCM controls ground of coil). This same wire also goes to cooling fan relay #5. There are no connectors that I see in between. You need to trace this B/L wire and see where power is dropping off at.
1BA come from the "ROOM" fuse. You also said you checked this fuse. It is a BLUE with RED tracer. (L/R) There is one connector in line (C-07). This is the firewall connector underneath the dash. You'll have to look for a break in this wire as well if your sure your fuse is good on both sides.
Ground pin 1BH is the same ground as the others. Very strange that you don't have a ground for that wire. Are you sure you don't have a rodent problem?!?!?!
Good luck.
1BA come from the "ROOM" fuse. You also said you checked this fuse. It is a BLUE with RED tracer. (L/R) There is one connector in line (C-07). This is the firewall connector underneath the dash. You'll have to look for a break in this wire as well if your sure your fuse is good on both sides.
Ground pin 1BH is the same ground as the others. Very strange that you don't have a ground for that wire. Are you sure you don't have a rodent problem?!?!?!
Good luck.
Last edited by jrx13; 06-21-2011 at 10:14 AM.
06-21-2011, 10:00 PM
#65
ok--i am getting kinda stumped.
the wire color at the pins are
1aw green with black tracer
1BE--solid black
1BA- Solid green
1BH solid purple
the EGI fuse #1 with the 10 amp fuse--has power to both sides with the switch on only and the ecu hooked up. power is to only one side ( not to black white tracer wires ( it has 2) with ignition switch off or ecu unplugged.
I repeat no ground to 1BH--i tested with circuit light. one clamp to the positive side of the battery and then my light to the terminal (harness not attached to ecu while doing this)
If it is a common ground with 1BD and 1BB then that doesnt make sense as I tested them the same way. I did notice that with 1BD my light was not as bright? Where is this ground point?
1AW power is supposed to be under any circumstance but i only have it when the ignition switch is on. The other power pins of 1Ay and 1 BE no power at all no matter what. They should have power under any circumstance
everything works on the car--remote--all dash lights--security light flashes 1-6 code which is no communication with ecu, lights, radio, locks, safety systems, keyless system allows me to turn the ignition, wipers etc, etc.
But fuel pump does not have the usual sound when the ignition switch is turned on.
ob2 port still will not allow communication i guess because of no power.
guess i will be pulling the engine harness?
When I connect the positive battery cable i do hear 3 relay clicks.
OD
the wire color at the pins are
1aw green with black tracer
1BE--solid black
1BA- Solid green
1BH solid purple
the EGI fuse #1 with the 10 amp fuse--has power to both sides with the switch on only and the ecu hooked up. power is to only one side ( not to black white tracer wires ( it has 2) with ignition switch off or ecu unplugged.
I repeat no ground to 1BH--i tested with circuit light. one clamp to the positive side of the battery and then my light to the terminal (harness not attached to ecu while doing this)
If it is a common ground with 1BD and 1BB then that doesnt make sense as I tested them the same way. I did notice that with 1BD my light was not as bright? Where is this ground point?
1AW power is supposed to be under any circumstance but i only have it when the ignition switch is on. The other power pins of 1Ay and 1 BE no power at all no matter what. They should have power under any circumstance
everything works on the car--remote--all dash lights--security light flashes 1-6 code which is no communication with ecu, lights, radio, locks, safety systems, keyless system allows me to turn the ignition, wipers etc, etc.
But fuel pump does not have the usual sound when the ignition switch is turned on.
ob2 port still will not allow communication i guess because of no power.
guess i will be pulling the engine harness?
When I connect the positive battery cable i do hear 3 relay clicks.
OD
Last edited by olddragger; 06-22-2011 at 07:57 AM.
06-22-2011, 08:53 AM
#66
You might be looking at connector from the wrong direction according to the factory wiring diagram I'm using.
1BE is B/L but the opposite side 1A is solid B
1BH is B but opposite side is V (violet or what you called purple)
1BA still shows L/R but opposite is G/L which is close to your solid green.
1BE is B/L but the opposite side 1A is solid B
1BH is B but opposite side is V (violet or what you called purple)
1BA still shows L/R but opposite is G/L which is close to your solid green.
06-22-2011, 10:55 AM
#67
you know I pondered about that But the 2009 electrical diagram I have identifies the the 1 series pins on the left side connector of the ecu as you stand in front of the car. The line feeding it is coming from the fusebox--mainly. The other connector on the right side seems to be getting most of its feeds from the wire/cable coming from the engine.
I got the scematics from from a fellow down under. I guess those Aussies dont have it backwards do they? I mean even though there toilets do flow counterclockwise? HeHe--just kidding mate.
I stuck my check light into everyhole there was and my findings kinda verified that I was looking at it the right way? i looked at it the same way when I tested the grounds also.
I will double check tonight to make sure I am not being just stupid--which I have been before.
But the 2009 electrical diagram I have identifies the the 1 series pins on the left side connector of the ecu as you stand in front of the car. The line feeding it is coming from the fusebox--mainly. The other connector on the right side seems to be getting most of its feeds from the wire/cable coming from the engine. I got the scematics from from a fellow down under. I guess those Aussies dont have it backwards do they? I mean even though there toilets do flow counterclockwise? HeHe--just kidding mate.
I stuck my check light into everyhole there was and my findings kinda verified that I was looking at it the right way? i looked at it the same way when I tested the grounds also.
I will double check tonight to make sure I am not being just stupid--which I have been before.
Last edited by olddragger; 06-22-2011 at 11:02 AM.
06-22-2011, 11:15 AM
#68
I totally forgot that they have RHD vehicles! I have that same CD at home but I haven't ever compared the two wiring diagrams. I can do that probably tonight to see the differences.
Oh yeah pin 1AW which is B/L the opposite side of connector is G/B which is what you stated before.
I think you have the right connector of the two, your just looking at it the wrong direction (either front side or back side).
My thinking :
1BE your looking at 1A
1BA your looking at 1E
1AW your looking at 1I
1BH your looking at 1D
it's hard to explain in writing but like the opposite side of the pins. Like a mirror image.
Oh yeah pin 1AW which is B/L the opposite side of connector is G/B which is what you stated before.
I think you have the right connector of the two, your just looking at it the wrong direction (either front side or back side).
My thinking :
1BE your looking at 1A
1BA your looking at 1E
1AW your looking at 1I
1BH your looking at 1D
it's hard to explain in writing but like the opposite side of the pins. Like a mirror image.
Last edited by jrx13; 06-22-2011 at 11:24 AM.
06-22-2011, 12:19 PM
#69
You are right! After dont a little reading I realize that stupid me is looking at the correct ecu connecter--i think--but from the wrong friggin side.
Man I feel so dumb.
But, i do remember testing every pin with a multimeter and if I do remember correctly the flip side pins also didnt have power.
I will be back out there tonight.
I am sorry in wasting yalls time like this. _)*()&*&#%#@!%&* stupid me--I HATE when I read things wrong like this. Jesus!
Ok, i just cussed out a tree, feel a little better and will get back on it tonight. Sigh....
Guess they dont call me "Sparky" for nothing.
OD
Man I feel so dumb.
But, i do remember testing every pin with a multimeter and if I do remember correctly the flip side pins also didnt have power.
I will be back out there tonight.
I am sorry in wasting yalls time like this. _)*()&*&#%#@!%&* stupid me--I HATE when I read things wrong like this. Jesus!
Ok, i just cussed out a tree, feel a little better and will get back on it tonight. Sigh....
Guess they dont call me "Sparky" for nothing.
OD
06-22-2011, 05:53 PM
#71
Thanks--i didnt hit the dog. I couldnt anyway--he is really my buddy.
anyway this is starting to make sense.
all grounds listed are good
1AW black wire with blue tracer
1BE black wire with blue tracer
both of these have NO power with switch on or off.
1BA has power under any circumstance
Also i went ahead and checked pin 1 AY green with red tracer--its IG1 signal ignition relay and guess what--IT HAS POWER with ig switch on.
looking like a main relay?
i will be checking very soon as i have another!
if that fixes it there is going to be one hell of a party in the backyard and od will be doing the happy, happy joy dance.
od
anyway this is starting to make sense.
all grounds listed are good
1AW black wire with blue tracer
1BE black wire with blue tracer
both of these have NO power with switch on or off.
1BA has power under any circumstance
Also i went ahead and checked pin 1 AY green with red tracer--its IG1 signal ignition relay and guess what--IT HAS POWER with ig switch on.
looking like a main relay?
i will be checking very soon as i have another!
if that fixes it there is going to be one hell of a party in the backyard and od will be doing the happy, happy joy dance.
od
06-22-2011, 07:37 PM
#73
well it aint the relay and no happy happy joy here concerning this car!
I had already checked the egi comp2 fuse 10amp and I get power to both sides with ignition switch on---so.....
Is there a rat in the harness between that fuse and the ecu terminals or am I missing something?
Am i going to have to spit the harness to see what the heck is happening?
I am certainly having adventures with this car--may as well crank up the Rolling Stones while I am doing it?
I have found out that if the battery get to 10 volts the security system light in the dash doesnt flash anymore.
I had already checked the egi comp2 fuse 10amp and I get power to both sides with ignition switch on---so.....
Is there a rat in the harness between that fuse and the ecu terminals or am I missing something?
Am i going to have to spit the harness to see what the heck is happening?
I am certainly having adventures with this car--may as well crank up the Rolling Stones while I am doing it?
I have found out that if the battery get to 10 volts the security system light in the dash doesnt flash anymore.
06-22-2011, 08:21 PM
#74
I just noticed that the B/L wire branches off more places other than the ones I said earlier. Can you check your "FUEL PUMP SPEED CONTROL RELAY HIGH PRESSURE" terminals and see if you have power at the B/L terminal of that relay socket. It may help isolate the break in the wire you might have. I don't have a picture of it but since it is the coil side of the relay, it should be the smaller gauge wire sizes.
06-23-2011, 09:09 AM
#75
Ok I will. I dont think it does because I do not hear the pump working when the switch is turned on, i didnt know if that was caused by the ecu not firing up so no signal or if that circuit needs to be intact for the ecu to get power.
Thanks--will check tonight. Really appreciate your help.
Thanks--will check tonight. Really appreciate your help.