Stop the squeeking!
 

Is anyone having a problem with their wheels squeeking? After my 10k checkup (it might just coincidentally be when I first noticed) I have found that my wheels (seemingly the rear) squeek tremendously when braking. I called the dealership and they said it could be the weather. They also said that my brakes were fine at the 10k checkup. Any thoughts?

Re: Stop the squeeking!
 

I have the exact same problem. I don't brake too hard, therefore I think it could be a brake pad alignment problem. I took it in to the dealer for the recall, and they came back saying the brake pads & rotors were in perfect shape (they have plenty of 'meat' to be specific)

Furthermore, I haven't seen anything that would indicate damage to the rotors. My next best guess is that there are some particles in between the pads/rotors that ae causing a slightly abnormal friction. No matter what, it's embarrassing to have a $30K car with 9000 miles squealing when I stay on the brakes for over a few seconds (I am an early stopper)

NOTE: we had 1 (one) snow storm (ha!) here in dallas a month or so ago. So it's possible that there is some salt leftover or something alike that left.

The squeeking is common. Alot of 8 owners have posted that they experience it.

it being common doesn't ease my concern. what can I do to make it go away?

*raises hand* Squeaker here too. Make it stop. :)

Mine stopped on their own.

mine make noise also

havent had any problems

When I took my car in for the skweeky brakes they cleaned them in a water solution. They said it was brake dust. squeeks went away for a while ;) They are back right now and for my next trip ill hope they can stop the noise too.

Not a peep (or squeak)

Get your rotors turned.

no, no, no!!!

don't turn the rotors simply because there is a squeek!

turning the rotors is only going to be a temporary solution.

what is causing the noise is vibration. the vibration is happenning at the pad-to-caliper contact points. if you have the ability and are wondering what you can do to stop the noise then try these steps before you ever jepardize the friction surface.

i suggest using soap and water to clean your brake parts because some brake parts cleaners are petroleum based and those products can have an adverse affect on the rubber parts in your brake system. petroleum products will cause rubber parts to swell and swolen rubber parts in brakes can lead to sticking calipers which leads to increased pad wear, heat buildup and warping of the rotors and eventual disc thickness variations that cause pulsating pedals. (we've all been there and know how annoying it can be).

1) remove pads and clean with soap and water. scrub heavy deposits with wire brush.

2) remove caliper and clean with soap and water. (don't need to remove from hydraulic line) scrub heavy deposits with a wire brush.

3) clean pad mount bracket with soap and water. scrub heavy deposits with a wire brush.

4) depending on mileage, age, and condition of brake hardware kit you may want to replace it. (hardware kit typically includes the little springs and stamped steel clips and bits).

5) thoroughly dry EVERYTHING. avoid using compressed air as debris can be lodged into places it shouldn't be.

6) if you are performing a brake job at this time you should perform a caliper slide service. there isn't much to it other than replacing the rubber parts with new ones, removing the caliper slides, cleaning them off and lubing them with a high temp silicone grease (NOT a silicone adhesive!).

7) before you install the pads you will want to apply a thin coat of moly lube to all of the contact points between the hardware, caliper, and pads. DO NOT apply moly lube to the friction surface of the pad or the rotor face - this can damage the pads. it's ok to get some on there from dirty hands just don't intentionally put it on there to "lube the pads".

your brakes are designed to prevent audible levels of noise, what is happening is that the brakes are vibrating at a frequency that you can hear. you will never stop the vibration, the goal is to alter the frequency of the vibration to the point you can't hear it anymore.

turning a rotor should only be a last result and is typically reserved as part of a process for a complete brake system overhaul.

if it is time to have your rotors turned as part of a brake job you need to be a aware that most shops use bench lathes to turn their rotors - OEM's like mazda do NOT approve of these lathes because they actually cut more runout into a rotor than what they already had. you would be better off just scrubbing the rotors with sand paper than cutting them with a bench lathe.

there are alternatives to using bench lathes however and the most popular is an on-the-car hub mount brake lathe. these lathes actually cut the rotor on the car and their manufacturers garruntee a maximum of .002" of runout per cut.

so, the moral of the story is that if you are experiencing brake noise and your brakes have pleanty of life left then you probably just need to thoroughly clean and lube the calipers. if it is time for a brake job then make sure the people/shop/buddy/you that does the job knows how to do the job propperly.

if you have any other questions regarding brake or suspension work feel free to PM me, i do this for a living every day.

Ray

My brakes still squeel and I had them turn my rotors due to some rust build up and it was causing uneven wear.

1) DON'T TURN YOUR ROTORS. That is a last-ditch thing to do to a cheap set of rotors with a lot of miles. No one here has enough miles on their RX-8 to justify turning their rotors.

2) Besides what GTRay said (all good points for a brake job), just go out and stomp the crap out of your brakes.
Turn off the TCS, run the car up to 60 MPH someplace safe and stand on the pedal. Do this a couple of times and it will eliminate the squeaking.

very true... i rely on this method sometimes when a customer complains of a squeek in their brand new brake job - much can be said for seating pads and rotors together propperly and having clean parts to do the job with!

Ray

oh man, that is absolutetly the wrong way to fix and uneven wear problem.

for discs to cause uneven wear they would have to be Very warped. the only way i could imagine warping rotors that babdly is to repeatedly stop from 70MPH and them hit them with a garden hose to cool them off.

uneven wear is tipically associated with caliper slides and caliper pistons not functioning properly. while it does require an overhaul to fix the problems it doesn't sound like whoever did the brake job followed up on what was actually causing the problem if all they did was turn the rotors.

get your brakes cleaned and lubed at all the contact points (NOT the FRICTION points) that should take care of your noise problems.

rust will cause noise between the pads and the rotors, however it will probably go away after a few good stops from speed. the "tap and coast" method only prolongs the agony, don't be affraid of the ABS, it's there to be used! :-)

Ray

Just for reference.....

Mine were always quiet until I drove it through some water puddles during one of Houston's famous rain storms. When the squeal started, I took the pads out, only to find most of the lube (on that pad shims) had washed away.

I re-applied the lube on the shims (3 on each front pad, 2 on each rear) and never heard another sound!

Just recently, I installed new pads (to prepare for the upcoming National Tour autocross), redid the lube on the shims, and again, have not heard a sound.

As a side note - new pads on all four corners, carefully doing the lube on the shims, and bleeding the brakes took less than an hour total - not a big deal.

So an actual "brake cleaner" like the products sold at Autozone or something is a bad idea because of what it does to the rubber parts of the bake system?

The rear rotors had circular rings of rust, that is why they were turned. It was like there was rust trapped under the pads. They still squeal though. What do you suggest I tell the dealer. I am bringing it back Wednesday because they still squeal.

They what? There was a dark ring of rust/dust where the pad should have been contacting the rotor?

How many miles did you have on car at that time? Had you possibly overtaxed the brakes on a road course?

---jps

3600 miles on the car and no I had not taxed the brakes.

GTray, or whoever, you mentioned moly lube and high temp silicone grease. Is this process you outlined something I can do without knowing all too much about brakes? My neighbor is a mechanic nut, so I'll get him to help, but any brands you can point me to for the grease/lube?

moly lube and silicone grease are just generic products - we use the Mighty brand at work because we have corporate and family ties to the owner of the company. Any parts store will know exactly what it is and will help you out.

you can definately do this on your own. my philosphy is towards brake work is pretty simple - they either work or they don't :-)

whatever you do make sure you don't score the surface of the pads or the rotors with anything abrasive - this is just going to mask any work you just did cleaning and lubing everything.

scorring the rotors and pads only does one thing, it temporarily unseats the pads to the rotor, making them vibrate at a different frequency for a short period of time. this change in vibration will stop the squeeking for about 3 nanoseconds or until the pads reseat themselves to the rotors and vibration frequency is returned to pre-work conditions.

your average parts store is also probably not going to carry the Mighty brand, my suggestion would be to go to your local CarQuest and just ask for a bottle of Moly Lube and Silicone Grease for doing a brake job.

Ray

cans of brake cleaner are great for heavily caked on deposits in drum brakes and cleaning up after brake fluid spills.

a non-chlorinated brake cleaner is going to be fine in moderation, just don't let the parts soak in it. A bucket of soapy water and a plastic bristle brush will be more than enough to get the job done though. that's what i use at work and it hasn't let me down yet :-)


Ray

in this case the pads should have been replaced as well.

curious, how many rotors exhibited this problem? this is a rare problem and only associated with a few things - mostly foreign debris and parts imperfections.

Ray

Yeah, those kind of rings that early on must have been a faulty part. And whether it was the pad or rotor, one would have ruined the other.

---jps

I have slight rust on my rotors as well, is this mainly an asthetic problem or bad rotors? Something covered under limited warranty maybe?

Or is there some activity that causes the rust?

there is an activity that causes rust - but like any other case where cast iron is exposed to the elements it is to be expected. this is why i presume the people that paint their brake parts do just that - to cover up rust.

don't worry about light rusting on your rotors, it might make some noises the first few times you tap the brakes but it should usually go away.

if you're in a northern climate be especially prepared to undergo pretty serious brake work every few years. thick scaling rust is not good for your rotors but light spotted rust is %100 normal. it might look like crap with these nice big wide open 18" rims but that's about all you have to worry about.

Ray

Continuing my education...

Do certain rotors or material of rotors resist rusting more than others?

I've seen people with slotted and drilled rotors and there appears to be no rust. I didn't know if it was based on the material the rotors were made of, or how they were taken care of.

I live in the Dallas area, so no scaling based on climate and I wouldn't describe our climate as humid or wet :)

There are occasionally someone who experiments with different materials, but other than those new, very expensive carbon rotors, all brake rotors are cast iron.

Some rotors come coated with a material meant to resist rust. The pads wear this coating off very quickly on the "working surface". The untouched surfaces then resist rust, and the pads wear off any rust that collects on the "working surface". Normally if you're going to spend more on drilled or slotted, you'll spend a little more for such a coating.

A little rust on a rotor isn't an indication of a problem. There will normally be at least a light layer where the pad does not contact the rotor. Depending on the humidity, it will also collect on the face of the rotor after the car has been sitting, but will wear off with just a little use. But if you get out of the car after driving to work, and see a ring of rust/dust where the pad should contact the rotor, then that's normally a problem.

---jps

whoa there...

all companies that sell aftermarket, and even all OEM's that sell replacement rotors instruct that this coating be removed with soap and water prior to installation. this coating a rust inhibitor for shipping purposes only. when this goo comes into contact with pads and brought up to temperature it can bake itself onto the pads. This isn't good for a few things related to daily driving - mostly noise and performance. When it comes to performance brake parts the difference, according the manufacturers, is quite substantial. I haven't seen their test data but if they say to clean the crap off prior installation because it adversely affects braking performance, i would tend to follow their dirrections. :-)

Ray

Dude, I'm not talking about a rust inhibitor that companies put on for shipping. I'm talking about the fact that some rotors come lightly anodized, or with some similar coating that is intended to stay on the exposed surfaces (other than the braking surfaces) for a good while. It's not common, but it's out there.

---jps

ahhh.... hehe... </dumb>

i believe you are referring to a "gold zinc" plating that some performance rotors are shipped with. very good for rust prevention.

Ray

Yes, that's another option (and what I had on a set of cross-drilled rotors). Frankly, I don't know if any of them are ever actually anodized, or if people just use "anodized" incorrectly as a general term.

---jps

anodizing is really only associated with aluminum. it involves forming a thin layer of aluminum oxide on the surface of the metal and then dying that thin surface. the pores of the oxide are larger and accept dye better than aluminum.

i think the zinc plating is most common :-)

Ray