cavemancan

Too much only depends on the person driving I guess. We know from the experience of forum members that the 275's will fit on a lowered car. Even 285's with a lower side wall...30...will fit.

Since I am looking to max grip for autocross it makes perfect sence.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

Blasphemy

carbonRX8

iTrader: (1)

Sure, if you are partial to skinny little wussy tires.

iSP33D-for-J3SUS

In response to the original post:

Staggered wheels DO help on certain cars. For instance, the FC RX-7. 225's on the front and 255's on the back is a tried and true setup for road race /' autocross.

It just depends on the car. Staggering the tire size can completely change the handling characteristics of the car. (For the better or for the worse, depending...)

iSP33D-for-J3SUS

kneele00

the previous owner of my car put 245/40s on the rear and 225/45s on the front (stock rims).

The car understeers like a sunnufabitch when I autocross.

I'm definitely gonna match the sizes up when I get new tires.

burnaby rx-8

Would it have mattered at all what the rim sizes were for those differences in tire size? (ie. if you put different size tires front and back on the same rim size all around) opposed to having a wider rim for wider tires on the back. Anyone knows if this makes any difference in handling at all? sorry if this has already been answered.

SmokeyTheBalrog

wait you have bigger tired on the front?!?! Picts please. That just sounds so weird. And would probably look bad too.

Rx8urZ

hey guys i am running 245/4018 on the stock mazda wheels with some sticky dunlop tires and it feels alot more stable than stock......

M Fury

I don't run my car on the track so staggered wheels work fine for me. It's not my daily driver and I'm slowly building it up for show purposes. It's all about personal aesthetics. I like the look. Peace!

NsprAshuNz 671

I AGREE!! THAT LOOK IS MEAN!!!

kingbob1000

i just leaned a new way to spell tyte and i couldnt agree more. you would think someone with a name like mr wiggles would have a great sense of humor.
sincerly,
back stagger

OfficeNinja

I think we appreciate the post you made, but your facts are wrong. The article specifically was talking about the 350Z, except for the "ludicrous" comment, which is a matter of opinion.

The article, although clearly biased, is correct. The 350Z does push through turns with wider rear tires. The setup they used, with even width tires, works best in the case of the 350Z.

I can't speak for the RX8 because I don't know all the facts in regards to the effect that wider rear tires have, but I know for a fact that older BMW's (E30 - E36) and Honda S2000's benefit from wider rear tires. With natural understeer tendencies, the wider tires do help even the car out better in turns, and overall give better grip from dead stop RWD acceleration.

Clearly, if you are running 18x7.5's in the front and 18x14's in the rear, there will be some major effects. Good or bad depends on the geometries of the car, the driver, and the suspension. Remember, we're not talking about taste here... or are we?

Unless a company gets 10 different RWD cars together to compare the results, I just can't jump on board with this statement. Even further, don't believe everything you read on the internet. Even if it's in a magazine... it's still usually someone's opinion.

MonkeyBoy88

Hey RX8Urz, do you have pics of your tires? I'm thinking about putting 245's on the rear as well, mainly cuz I want the tires to be flush with the edge of the fender. I think the stock rims look pretty good except they don't stick out far enough. Do 245 tires on the stock rims push the tires to the edge?

Rx8urZ

ya i can do that for you. andthis setup is really good it doesn't have that tendency to understeer like before with the 225. plus i think it looks better with some nice wide meats on the stock rims....I will post the pics asap....

insane<se3p>

i understand that you should have the same size tires in the front as you do in the back, but i heard that if you go to big in the front you lose your turning. Is that true. i would like to go around 255 or 265 in the back on my rx8. now should i put 255 or 265 in the front?

whitebeau

I've been reading through this thread, and found this one as the best to bounce off in lending credit to a staggered setup. Key factors on how to compensate for the increased understeer due to wider tires on the rear would be.


1. - Change in approach to turn-in setting up for the apex of the exit.


2. - Suspension (Change in bound,rebound can also compensate to increase oversteer or understeer).


If no changes are made, basic compensation would be using the brake drifting technique, often used on Front wheel Front drive (FF) cars. weight shift is transferred to the front, requiring late braking into the entrance, and balance the brake until the rear tires start to initiate a loose 'floating feeling', at this point the gas can be applied and modulated to balance the weight transfer thats completely loaded on the front tires to the outer tires during the exit pass through of the apex point of a turn.



So in short, change in driving habit would need to be done vs having a non-staggered setup, or going to staggered if your the glass 1/2 full or empty person same can be said of some artists....

For drifting, staggered with wider tires in the rear is common, since more traction is needed to maintain speed through the turn, granted you can never exceed the speed of a 4wheel drift if your front tires cannot maintain traction, but since your spinning your rear wheels with the last ditch effort to maintain control, a combination of tires,rim,suspension, brakes, alignment and power to the wheels are useless if your timing for the entrance of the turn is to fast.... notice i placed the factor order from the contact patch as the 1st. this is always the deciding factor on how your car will handle.... unless your lightning mcqueen, then i hope your car has a long tungue to make the race at least a tie (Cars movie plug) i have a 3 year old boy.


Anyhoo. i think this is my 1st post? sweet! no more forum lurking for me!


Have a good weekend... Washington has 5 days of clear sunny days... Touge time!

forgot to include, reverse stagger is typical in FF cars to have wider up front, (ie: 225/195rear)

insane<se3p>

hey thanks for the info. i figured it all depends. im with you whitebeau, touge yah. changing my driving style isn't that big of an issue. i figured it would help in my driving. ill just know my car even better. thanks

Cody Red

well i found some super advans i want for track

17x8 front

17x9 rear

i've come to read that going staggered is not good for track because of understeer. but i have dreamed of these wheels since day one.

food for thought: 245/50/17 for front and 245/50/17 for rear.

same tire width, assuming 245s fit good on 8in width.

how about that? just curious because i found some advans.

whitebeau

Cody Red -

Will those clear your Brakes?

Midust well go 245x40 front & 275x35 rear in my opinion... you can always offset the increased understeer (Note this is in my Concept, corrections appreciated).


1. Stiffer/thicker rear anti roll bar, and increase rebound on front suspension, and keep the rear softer.


My theory is this will increase initial turn in response, but the softer rear suspension will be slower to pitch then the front end, stiffer rear anti rollbar to keep the rear suspension more predictable and elminate flex...

Once again driving style is going to differ from person to person... some may like a stiffer ride, but can absorb the harder hits. it's a funky play with tire,spring,shock combo. Getting an anti-rollbar you'll want later down the road if you really push your car all the time so the flex in the frame can be minimized, allowing the suspension to be more predictable....


Did I just counter my first paragraph with the 2nd? must be late,

In short, if you WANT the staggered ride, it will change the way your car currently handles when coming into a turn... meaning you will be required to brake a little more to compensate for the understeer to increase traction to the front tires...


Suspension is key to compensate for the natural attitude of increased traction on the rear tires, otherwise change in driving style is needed.


This I believe is one of the main reasons I believe Mazda has been dominating the circuit this year in their '6', they're able adjust the suspension so the driver doesn't have to change their driving style to the point that they have to compensate entry method for every turn, which allows them to focus on exiting through the turn with confidence as each turn can be approached with consistency.
This also leads up to tire wear/heat and brakes also facing increase use, as with understeer you will have to brake harder if you plan to brake later...


If you don't have adjustable shocks for bound & rebound. the end question is will you be willing to adjust your driving style for the change in handling ....


Cosmetically, your going to get some funky wheel lip with 17x9's in the rear



Sorry if this doesn't help much. It really breaks down to being prepared for change in handling.... if you drift your car, this can be a boon if you find yourself getting off the gas and needing more countersteer to maintain the drift... increased rear traction will allow faster speeds vs going 245's all around if you haven't made a suspension upgrade.


I know this has been covered on other sites, we might need a sticky for Suspension breakdown... but then again having an auto-x or trackday will also do the same thing, I get the impression not everybody wants to drift their car... but gauging somebody as a show, daily, spirited, aggressive, auto-x, club racer (Races on weekends), and drift driver... is probably why i'm over analyzing these questions.


Show, Daily - Stagger setup I don't think is going to conflict with your day to day driving.

Spirited, Aggressive - Stagger will either be more annoying or a boon depending on how you come into the turns, or if you have a tendency to over steer/drift... the later stagger setup will help more... hence driving style will be key on this (Mike categorized driver).

Auto-x, weekend warrior (Club Racer) - Staggered will be dependent on the course, this is moot for these people as they should have an extra set of tires/wheels anyway "U hoosier people know who you are" . These drivers will have also changed their suspension to accommodate there driving style (Adjustable shocks: the uber ones would like to tweak not just the rebound but also the bound settings), along with adjustments needed for the course. Balance in Spring rate to shock application is important, which is why getting coilovers is the easiest method. Suspension Manufacturer has already tested with varied spring/shock setups.... The coilover feature is more for application adjustment, since shock travel is typically not impeded because this can be offset with bound/rebound settings if you decide to lower or raise the ride heighth...

Drifters - this pretty much encompasses what I consider a spirited driver and up, as one gets more familiar with the cars limits as a spirited driver, the disease will encroach the rest of the persons soul, finding ways to increase past their cars limits, in turn growing as a driver themselves to overcome ones comfort zone (recommend always on a closed course)... finding lack of better suspension, tires can always be compensated through a drift..... as in WRC, a 4 wheel drift is the last ditch effort on regaining control of your car... induced drifts (Meaning intentional) implies increased confidence in ones ability to control there car regardless of road conditions or obstacles in the path ahead...


.... I say get them if they clear your brakes

Cody Red

^^too big of a passage to quote, but i am running the racing beat sway bars + end links.

brake clearance is one thing i am truly afraid of. i wouldn't mind the advans for daily use and just use the stock wheels for track but it's because of the track i want 17's

it's a bit of a sticky situation for me right now, and I hate it because it's such a damn good deal on these super advans.

DRFT_RX8

hey someone help....LOL. I'm ordering some 19x8.5 +22mm offset for my fronts and for the rear 19x10 +22mm offset. How will the fitment be? Will it be even with my fenders?

M Fury

Total crap, bro. That offset is for a 350z and G35. Wheels will stick out beyond the fenders making it look like a f**king truck.

MrWigggles

Hmmm, judging by the apparent tire size and fender flares I'm going to guess that is a staggered set-up.

A lot of factors come into play, but you can't say one way or another that staggered or non-staggered is a good thing all the time.

-Mr. Wigggles

Ps. I still like my staggered set-up

jonnyspeed

To add fuel to the fire... Mr. Wiggles is correct. Here are the specs from the speedsource website:

2008 Mazda RX-8 specs.
Engine 20B Three rotor rotary engine (1,950cc)
Max Power 425HP @ 8500RPM <--- This may have something to do with why they went staggered Not exactly stock
Max Torque 285 ft-lbs. @ 7600
Max RPM 8800
Dry Sump Lubrication
Bosch 4.3 ECU
Gearbox Emco Daytona Prototype
Six forward gears and one reverse
Ring and Pinion 10/35
Bodywork All carbon fiber
73.5 inch width
174 inch length
Suspension Dymanic Suspension DSSV shocks
Front and Rear adjustable anti-roll bars
18x11 Racing Hart wheel front with 285/645-18 Pirelli Racing tire
18x11.5 Racing Hart wheel rear with 305/660-18 Pirelli Racing tire
Brakes Dual master cylinders with balance bar
Four piston Alcon front and rear calipers
Cast iron vented Alcon rotors front and rear
Pagid racing brake pads

BTW... What a friggin ride that must be!!! I want a 3 rotor

NoPistonZ

Those silly Speedsource guys! Staggered FTW!!