MS suspension vs. Koni shocks vs. Megan racing coilovers
 

Hey guys, I have done alot of reading on the board about this topic. Im trying to narrow down spring shock combos. My car is mostly a spirited driving street car that will go to some track days. What would you suggest for suspension.

I was originally thinking to go with the MS kit, but im worried that it could just be too soft for me. The koni are nice because there is no fuss of the coilover, but still some adjustibility, and then I can get the Megan racing coils for a good price, but im worried that there will be alot more work on the install as well as the upkeep of these (ie:rebuilds).

I am really going for as much performance that I can get, without turning the car into a race car.

Any other recommendations would be welcome

the mazda speed spring/strut combo is one of the stiffest availible.
the konis are well.... konis. you cant go wrong with those but your spring choice will play a heavy roll on how your car will ride.

the megans are pretty much full coilovers for a fraction of the price. as far as quality goes, they are made by apexi so i wouldnt worry about them too much.

does anyone know how the megans will ride. I dont mind a harsh ride, but i dont want extra dental work. Also, does anyone know how often coilovers will have to be rebuilt. I have heard a bit about this, but would love some more info

I'm just about to order a set of megan racing coilover except I will ask them to change the rear spring rate from 10 to 8kg/mm. If I do decided on megan over k-sport, I will let you know how it goes.

Terence

if you can outdrive the MS kit with the MS sways then your driving the wrong car. They are are stiff as you would want for the street. To be honest, the best combo of handling and performance IMO is the racing beat kit. I have the MS kit, but after installing nearly everything under the sun, Koni's, MS, Tien, RB etc....the RB setup is my personal favorite unless you really track or auto-x the car. and I mean REALLY.

My vote is for none of the above... Tein basics. Cost just as much as MS, but are stiffer (shocks hide it well over bumps), and theyre hight adjustable. I just put some on my car about 1 month ago, and its defenetly been the best bang-for-my-buck mod Ive ever done on any car. I seriously recommend looking into them, as I was in the same market as you.

ok, a couple of things,

the tein basics are height adjustable, but you are changing the preload for the springs as you do it. They obviously give far better handling then stock, but I think a coilover that adjusts without affecting preload will be far better.

I like the RB kit because I would prefer Linear springs, I really want to stay away from progressive spring rates, this brings up another problem, the RB do not seem to sound stiff enough, and the MS is progressive

The alternative is to maybe get the konis with the RB but will this be enough,

Sorry im really torn here, and the reason is because although this is a mostly street car, I have raced in karting and formula cars for the past 10 years, so i really want a great package that is still fully "streetable"

If it's mostly street, then go RB and Koni.

Believe me and a few others. The rear stock shocks won't last long with spring only.

Also, the ride will be smooth, otherwise go full racing like I did and go with the best.

KW Variant 3 Coilovers.

Many racing teams use these.

If you do the right setup on the KW's, there stiff but not too bad at all.

At 40 plus they're nice. It gets smoother as the speed climbs.

For the track re-adjust them to be rock solid.

thanks for the advice
RAZZ, I was never going to just do springs, If I did RB, then I would put konis on. Also price is a consideration, the KWs are about double what I was intending to pay for springs and shocks, so that is overdoing it. If someone has the Megans and posts what they ride like that would be cool.

how are the Konis + RB vs. the Mazdaspeed spring& shocks....that I guess is the real question. I like that the RB are linear, but they seem to be substantially less stiff then the MS

Kart Racer,
Try the K-Sport coil-over package... it's height-adjustable at the base of each shock, not at the spring pre-load perch, and they have a very nice "feel" on the street. They're firm, but supple at the same time. K-Sport also offers a variety of spring rates. I chose 8 kg/mm for the rear, but have a pair of 6 kg/mm rears on the way too. The stock package comes with 5 kg/mm rears and 10kg/mm fronts, which works to make for better grip/less wheelspin when accelerating hard off of the corners. My front shocks are adjusted to 1.5 turns up from full soft, with the rears at 2 turns up (I'm going to change that back down to 1.5 turns also). The ride is tight and body motion fore and aft and left to right well-controlled by the springs and shock valving. No complaints at all except for having the rear valving a tad too stiff at the 2 turns up setting for my tastes. Would feel great while drifting as the control is fantastic at this point!

BTW-Because of the decreasing radii of the stock springs, I believe that all lowering springs for the car using this design are "progressive" in nature slightly. Rumor has it that the Mazdaspeed springs are made by Eibach for MS. The same goes for their coil-over package.

i run the koni's plus rb bars and tein H springs(approx 20% stiffer)
it's a great setup for me.I daily drive and track about 4x a yr. talk to the DPE guys--one of the vendors on this forum--they are an excellant resource for suspenions and brakes--plus they run all the combo's. straight up guys/company.
olddragger

I've ridden in Oldraggers car and it's a GREAT setup. Doesn't feel much rougher on the street than stock at all, but when he goes into a corner or hits the brakes, you feel a definate difference. I will probably be getting the same combo as he. I like buying stuff that I've tested out. I am sure I'll be satisfied with the Koni/Tien combo.

Hell, the stock shocks won't last long period, even with stock springs. I started bouncing around like a pogo stick at 30k miles. I thought it was my imagination at first, but then I saw in a another thread that forum vendor DPE has seen significant shock wear in the rear at only 20,000 miles.

Speaking of which, how long will a set of Konis last? Can they be rebuilt?

konis last forever.
if you do the rb sways dont forget to get their endlinks.
they are big bars so make sure you dont go with too stiff of a spring--probably dont need to mention that.
This car is already low so dont get TOO low--you could start having clearance problems. I cant go through the automated car washers now. No problems with driveways or speedbumps but it does get close.
olddragger

Hey everyone!!!

I am new to your forum and I had some questions about coilover suspension vs. springs and shocks.

I dont have an RX8 but...I was wondering what is better. I drive mostly street and I am looking for something that will give me performance under aggressive driving but still give me a comfy ride as well. Money is sort of an issue as well. I was looking into the Tanabe coilovers. They seem to have a decent price (about 800.00 for the set) or some good shocks and Tanabe DF210's lowering springs. They give about a 2" drop also with a decent price. I guess really the question is...Are coilovers worth it if I don't race? And what are the benefits between one or the other. Any help you all could give would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

I'm curious too. Currently I have Tokico D-Spec adjustables with stock springs. I REALLY like the setup, since I can set them full stiff for the track or autox, then softer for the street. I know coilovers are height-adjustable... is that the only real advantage? (And why the hell are so many coilovers so freakin' expensive??)

depends on what you get.

take for instance tein basics.
they cost about the same as a spring shock combo. the advantage is that you can now adjust height. but, they are do not allow you to change dampening.

the mazdaspeed setup doesnt allow you change anything at all i believe. but in both cases the springs and the shocks are pretty well mated to eachother.

now if you go koni or tokikos + springs, youll have dampening adjustment but ride height will be determined by the springs you choose.

the megans give you a lot of features that usually come on more expensive coilovers i.e. dual height adjustment as well as dampening control for 50-100 bucks more then the teins. IMO its a great deal if your ok with putting megans on your car.

aside from the megans, you usually get what you payfor with coilovers. when you get into more hardcore setups, you typically get more control such as independent rebound and bound or compression. also mono tube shocks and better valving will also cost you. lighter, stronger materials and bling such as EDFC all add into the equation.

on a side note, konis are not unbreakable. my front passenger side strut has began to leak. then again, my car as a whole is pretty much falling apart

Yep! That's why KW variant 3 coilovers are the best for racing/track applications.

I agree.

Generally to obtain the best handling you want maximum stiffness in the chassis (usually obtained via sways and strut supports) with the softest spring/shock combo you can get by with to maintain tire/road contact at all times over bumps (without running into spring binding) . For the street, the spring/shock combo can be much softer (possibly even staying stock) than for auto-Xing or for the track (in which stiffer springs/shocks will help).

Many aftermarket suspension setups, including Mazdaspeed, try to create most of the handling improvement via stiff springs and shocks with less improvement in chassis stiffness via sways/strut braces. These kinds of setups will not only beat you to death with poor ride quality, but will decrease handling quality because a lot of tire hopping over bumps will result instead of always maintaining the desired tire/street contact at all times. This will result in a VERY twitchy (and scary) car to car to drive at the limit.

For this reason, IMHO, the Racing Beat Sways and the Mazdaspeed strut braces are the most important additions for better handling. After that, you may want to add a little stiffer springs like the RB springs, but not as stiff as the MS. That's my plan (in this order)

The MS is hardly too stiff for the street. We have some of the worse roads in the country and I have plenty of control. They are only 280lbs in the front. Stiff, but not overboard. Mazda did a good job with their suspension tuning. I have yet to feel beat to death either.

I went from RB to MS suspension setup. For me, I prefer the MS.

The big mistake I see with discussions on handling is I never see anyone discuss driving style.

hey guys i know my question is going to sound really nooblike but how do you kknow which springs are soft or not??

most companies post the spring rates (force it takes to compress the spring a given distance) on their website. search for the thread that has practically all spring rates for this car... everything is relative... take note of the stock rates as well.