Koni SA, stock springs or aftermarket?
 

Setting up my car for local autocrosses and will NOT be competing in SCCA so I don't care about B stock vs STU for the time being. I will be putting a set of Koni yellow/SA's on before the season begins and wondering if aftermarket springs will be beneficial in addition to the konis.

I will be running some sticky 275/40/17 street tires and I know the factory spring rates are VERY soft. I wanted to know if the konis alone will pretty much kill most of the body roll/pitch/dive or if I should go ahead and get some aftermarket springs while I have everything apart.

My requirements for springs are

1. Near factory ride height maybe an honest .5-.75 inch drop is ok but nothing more (I don't want to rape curbs/speed bumps etc) since it's my daily driver.

2. Not much stiffer than stock, I don't want a bone jarring ride and will probably not set the konis to full stiff in the rear.

3. Price, not much more than 200 a set

So let me know if you guys think there are any springs that fit my criteria and if they would even dramatically help in addition to konis for autocross.

Thanks in advance.

You just described the Racing Beat springs.

Thanks, I'll definetely look into those. BTW are those progressive spring rates? I looked at the rates and it looks like 20% stiffer front and rear. I'm not sure if this will make any difference over stock with the konis.

I know the MS springs are bout 2X stiffer in the front than stock but they're still quite a bit softer than any coilover such as the tein flex or basic so I wonder if it's managable.

Shocks will only go so far in terms of reducing roll, pitch, and dive. If you don't care about rules then a set of springs or sway bars will keep the car flatter, both in the transitions and in sweepers. Shocks eventually "give up" in a long sweeper, with the springs & bars determining body roll at that point.

The stock-class approach of relying strictly on shocks is a comprimise. There's a reason the ST/SP/SM guys run high spring rates. But, will a mild bump & CG drop help your times? Probably, but not buy a bunch. I think the biggest advantage to a mild bump in spring rates is that you won't feel obliged to overdamp the car. Which is to say, a moderate bump in springs & damping together is better than a big bump in damping alone.

Anyway, putting aside the question of wether or not the car will be faster, I reccomend doing what makes you feel best about the car. Personally, I like the way springs feel as opposed to sways. If you get some mild springs I'm sure the ride will still be good, as long as they don't drop the car too far (and thus put you on the bump stops). There have been alot of comments on this board about the different springs out there, and the guys at DPE or Goodwin would probably steer you to a good set.

But in the end, the SP/ST approach is a slippery slope. If you start with mild springs I predict you'll want more next year. Nothing wrong with that - just enjoy the process!

I know the shocks on the car are very underdampened so those will definetely go bye bye, the springs are more of an afterthought at this point. I know a lot of the local Bstock guys are fast on just konis/tires but I don't care about SCCA classing so I'm trying to get every little bit of extra edge that I can get so I'm wondering if the springs will actually help.

I will not change sways for the time being, just want to get the shocks and possibily springs out of the way first. I guess my main determinations on buying springs and what kind are if they will actually help in an autocross situation paired with the konis over just stock springs/konis, a REAL drop (not factory claimed) that is less than 1" front and back and somewhat sane daily ride quality.

In my experience 20% of so stiffer isn't going to make a big difference in handling over stock springs/shocks but i have not had the chance to drive very many different suspension set ups on the RX8 yet.

From what I guess would be a good setup for me I'm looking for

1. Performance
2. Comfort
3. Price
4. Looks (couldn't care less about if it looks "slammed" or any crap like that, stock wheel gap doesn't bother me at all)

I would like:

40% stiffer than stock
.5-1" drop
220F/ 160 R spring rate
Affordable
But maybe most importantly, if there are any shocks that are KNOWN to work well with the Konis already.

Looking at the spring rate list it looks like maybe the Espilir but I'm open to other suggestions. On the BMW M3 I really liked the H&R OE sport, higher spring rates than stock but barely any drop at all and very comfortable.

I don't know if they are still available or not, but someone here was selling 4 sets of Espelirs for about $130 shipped.

Racing Beat offer linear rate springs, and are 20% stiffer. -0.5" drop
the other springs is mazdaspeed, 280 lbs/in Front 190.4 lbs/in Rear. 0.75-1" drop.

"During test sessions using our Racelogic VBox GPS data acquisition system, we recorded noticeable handling improvements after the installation of the Racing Beat sway bar set. Using the stock wheel/tire/ combination on our 2004 RX-8, we recorded the following cornering forces:

Stock Bars: .86-.87g
RB Bars: .89-.90 "
Quote from Racing Beat

I saw that thread and posted in it, those Espelirs look interesting.

Anyone with some real life daily drive/autocross experience with koni's and any of the aftermarket springs?

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-aftermarket-performance-modifications-23/spring-springs-springs-90198/

The MazdaSpeed springs are nice.

Mazdaspeed Springs are the best stock style spring IMHO, they have the highest spring rate among OEM style springs:

Front drop .8 "
Front rate 280 lb
Rear Drop .8 "
Rear rate 190 lb

Stock Springs are progressive in the rear, im not sure if this continued with the mazdaspeed springs.

Yep, you won't go wrong with RB springs

So it's 2 votes for MS and 1 for RB

Are the MS springs really that pricey though retail? Any supporting vendors with deals on those? If it helps i'm matching the Koni SA's with whatever springs in hopes for a better result vs just stock/konis since I won't be running Bstock.

PM'd

I signed up for the MS motorsports program thanks to Team, looks like I will grab some MS's for 200 or so if I can pony up the cash in addition to buying a set of Konis and 275/40/17 tires and paying for 3 autocross school this season.

What is the MS motorsports program? The cheapist I could find them was $244 for all four springs and $392 for all four shocks. I'm in the market for these as well.

just to throw in another shock option take a look at the Tokico D specs. They are adjustable as well except the advantage they have is that you can adjust the rear shocks on the car while the Koni's you would have to take the rear shocks off the car to adjust them.

Also if you buy the MS the springs take a look at the shocks they are designed to go with the springs so they are matched well. The MS springs are much stiffer and may be more than you want based on your criteria.

Look up DPE's threads. He has some good reviews and comparisions.

Thanks, I already looked into the Dspecs but I already decided on the Koni's, all the local fast guy's run Koni's and they are well proven. I will set the rears to a reasonable setting and leave them there, I don't think the MS springs will be too stiff. I've ridden in plenty of cars with Tein Flex and it was livable. The MS spring rates are only about half of the Flex coilover so I think I can easily live with it.

set the rear at 50%

I heard about half to 75% stiff is good for the street but plenty stiff for autocross. How many turns is that from full stiff, 1.5 turns back? Also if you're running a stiffer spring than stock would you still run the shock at the same dampening setting or can you make the shock softer and let the spring do more of the work?