Help with tire selection (T1R, S.Drive, FK452...)
 

Hi all. Time for new tires, looking for suggestions
Car: 2007 Sport MT
Conditions: Massachusetts dry/wet/cold (no snow duty)
Track/Auto-cross? no
desired tread life: at least 15k
Wheels: OEM 18"
Driving style: Steering responsiveness (fast and controlled slolumn/lane changes). I also look for as much information as possible transfered from the road to to the steering wheel. During long turns (circular on-ramps) I don't like the feeling that the rears may kick out at any minute; however, I like to test the grip and if the rear starts to drift in a gradual fashion, that can be fun so long as it's predictable.

From searching and searching, so far the best thread has been this one: https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...24#post3843824

However I've read a few dozen.

What I've concluded is that these are arguably the best tires out there: RE-11, Star Spec, AD07/08

What I've also concluded is that without track/autox, those tires are a waste.

So, i'm currently battling between tires in this second tier that seems to be for spirited drivers that don't necessarily hit the track:
T1R - "Fun" tire (i think in the drifting sense). Good feedback and response but a little light on grip in the rear.
PS2 - Very responsive but not great tread life and wet traction
S.Drive - good responsiveness and wet traction but not many reviews of this one (what tier doe this tire belong in? is it == to T1R?)
SPT - These Kumhos seem to be a very popular choice as a cheaper stock replacement; however, I see a lot of people eager to put on something a little more exciting
FK452 - excellent in the bang/buck category and I can't find anyone saying anything bad about them. Cheap, also. Has what I'd consider a cult following, seems comparable to the Kumhos.


Other tires I've gotten some intel on but haven't quite placed them are:
RE050A - good all around but hard to contrast with others since they are a popular target to beat up on. Some say they are the best overall while others say their $136/tire FK's make stock seem like crap
Extreme Contact DW - Lots of praise but from only a few people
Nitto - Really don't know what's going on here. Good for track duty perhaps
Firestone Indy 500 - currently tirerack rated #1 and tirerack did their own test with them and they faired very well, especially in responsiveness. They are also pretty cheap, however there are zero reviews of them by rx8club owners.
Eagle F1 - Heard good things, don't know where they really stand

I am so very eager to replace my tires because I bought the car from the dealer with nankang ns-II POS tires ($76/tire retail). They have a large center dead zone are poor in response and just feel like i'm driving through mud.

I'm leaning towards the Falkens and T1Rs. Falkens sound like they have better handling (and quieter) but the T1R has better grip. The Indy 500 and S.Drive are wildcards for me right now.

Could use some suggestions given the above info. Please recommend a size 245/40 vs 225/45 if you think it makes a difference (with stock wheels).

[in the running as of 2/16]
RE760 (added)
PS2 (possibly > FK452 because of its better wear)
FK452 (still nothing bad said about them)
T1R (possibly not as good as FK452 but debatable/very subjective)
Ultrac Sessanta (Euro folk are pretty hot for these)

Personally I would throw out the T1Rs because Toyos are the cheaper tire (i don't mean money wise either). Stick to the 452s and S-drives if those are your other primary options.
Falkens - quieter, better grip, tighter handling IMO, cheaper, stiffer sidewall, directional
Yokos - better treadwear, good responsiveness, more expensive, supposedly higher quality, directional
End of the day it's your choice but I would say 452s are the best bang for your buck

i have the 452 falkens for 45,000 miles including 40 laps at the track nurburgring and they perform superior to any other tire i have driven with like f1 , bridgeston , etc, . Excellent tire for the price

Can you please elaborate on this comment? Thanks.

A couple posts have said you can get it to slide easier than some other tires. This post in particular says "light" and "oversteer", so I guess "light on grip in the back" was not the best paraphrase: https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...41&postcount=4

Thanks for the FK452 feedback. If I go with FK452 on OEM wheels, should I go 225 or 245?

How does the FK452 compare to the Michelin Sport PS2?

The PS2 has some nice ratings on tirerack and with lots of miles reporting: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....ar=&tab=Survey

Higher quality than the FK452?

ive seen people go with 245 but stock is 225...245 will cover the wheel better but is more expensive...very slight drop in MPG

I havent tested the PS2 but treadwear should be better

Yes some say the S-drives are higher quality than the 452s but for a higher price...I have had both and prefer the 452s overall

Any reason you haven't looked into the Hankook Ventus V12?

One of the best bang for buck tires available right now.

That's another tire that has nothing but praise. I didn't include it in the list because it has soso tirerack survey ratings compared to S.Drive and I'm mainly looking for the best performing tires for my application, not counting the R-compounds (and star spec). I think the V12 is a great bang/buck but doesn't quite research the levels of the others in the performance category.

OP, I'm in the same boat as you. I was thinking the FK452's.
Decisions, decisions...

^ I have come across another good resource: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/

It has reviews for tires (or tYres as the Brits like to say). The summary ratings tell an interesting story.
Mainly that the 452 and S.Drive are solid performers with the 452 being slightly better in every category:
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Falken/FK452.htm
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Yokohama/S-Drive.htm

It also shows that, after1.6m miles of ratings, the PS2 is the real deal:
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Mi...-Sport-PS2.htm

A cool feature of the site is that it will show you the top rated tires from people with your car:
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyres_For/Mazda/RX8.htm

Something new I found out about in that chart was a tire called "Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta". They look pretty legit and they only loose about 4 points in dry grip and 5 points in wear to the PS2s in overall ratings.

Continuing to research these but I'm adding them to the mix. Deeper into the rabbit hole...

This is utter nonsense. Toyo makes excellent quality tires. I've had 5 different sets of Toyos on 3 different cars in the pas 10 years and they have never let me down. The T1R has awesome wet grip. Good dry, not outstanding, but subjectively fun, as was mentioned earlier.

As for rear grip, that's just a matter of getting the alignment sorted.

I will say this - if you like crisp turn-in, and you are on the stock rims, stick with 225/45s if you get the Toyos. Pass on the 245/40s - they are a bit too soft on 8"
rims for good turn in. Great on 8.5s, but not on 8s. So if you are intent on getting 245s, pass on the Toyos.

I really like my current tire - Goodyear Asymmetrics. Excellent all-around tire that does nothing wrong. Not as grippy as something like Star Specs, but should last longer. Great turn-in and excellent feedback. Fun to play with slip angles. 245/40s on 8.5" rims.

My first set were Toyos...less grip + poor treadwear + noisy = lesser quality tire (IMO)
moved on to the S-drives - better
moved on to the 452s - best
also tested some others along the way Nittos, V12, Star Spec...but we're not talking about those

^What he said.

+1

Get rid of too much camber in the back!

I had -2.1 to -2.3 camber in the back and couldn't turn right onto a street without the DSC pulsing.

At -1.65 camber for the rears now, I can turn into traffic, stomp the gas, and get full power with no drama.

That's on a 225/40r18 tire.

^You also have to tell us what tire you have, as well as the amount of front negative camber.

For that matter, it also depends heavily on your suspension setup...

But yes, too much negative camber on the rear relative to the front can be a bad thing. The setup I ran for the last two years had -2.5 front, -2.0 rear and I didn't have any rear wheelspin issues, as long as the cornerweights were good and I didn't have toe-out in the rear.

Yes, this is an autocross setup with reasonably well sorted coilovers (KW V3s), possibly too extreme for a strictly street setup.

That's cool, you have some experience relevant to the tires being discussed here. Although I am somehwat skeptical of anything short of a back-to-back comparison - tires age out, alignments shift, etc.

But still, good to post since you've been using tires the OP is thinking of.

Again, the Asymmetrics are great, but pricey.

I just recently bought a set of bridgestone potenzas re760 245/40/18 on a set of mazda speed rims.

I called bridgestone /firestone and between the indy 500 wide oval, the re760, the re760 is a better application for our cars, due to better grip around the corners and better on wet pavement cause our cars are light. The wide ovals are more for corvettes and mustangs and that was feed back from the engineering/ warranty department. The re760 are also asymmetrical so you can rotate them on any side. hope this helped. good luck with your purchase

I've been doing some tire research lately as well, with similar criteria and driving style as the OP. Based on what I've read, I'm leaning toward the Hankook Ventus V12 and the Bridgestone Potenza RE760.

Car and Driver did a nice tire comparison test (link), and the Hankook Ventus V12 performed very well, second to a more expensive Dunlop.

The S.Drive is a couple notches down from Max Performance. It's basically a long wearing, summer-only performance touring type tire. I put them on my beater Civic. It's an okay tire, nothing remarkably, definitely not sporty. Now the Yoko AD08 on the other hand...

Going to rule out the S.drive since FK452 > S.drive [slvrstreak] and it's generally a middle of the road summer tire [climacus]
RE760 > Firestone Indy 500. Thanks for the info, Speed 8. Ruling out the Indys.

RE760 has pretty good ratings on tire rack. Almost as good as RE050A PP and the price is much better; $900 vs $560 for the set. Wonder what the main difference is in the rubber between the two that makes the 50's so much more $$.

How about cold temperature driving; which tires can cope with the temp fluctuations of a new england Spring (and end of winter since i want to put them on now)?

The manufacturer description of the RE760s says "not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures". I was actually letting my self entertain the Star Specs due to their oh so sweet grip but words from the wise auto-x'ers is that they don't like lots of freezing/warm cycles and that this type of exposure would lead to quick deterioration of their dry grip even under warm conditions.

Any first hand accounts of driving PS2, FK452 or others in freezing cold?

doubtful they would be any better
arent they all summer performance tires
i would think you'd need an all-weather performance tire but, someone smarter than myself will chime in...im just the early bird :D

u will need all season tires for cold temperatures below 40 degress,..

I agree, if you are going to drive in below 40F temperatures, you need something other than a summer tire, and even some all-season tires are going to lose a lot of grip when it gets cold.

I have a set of SPTs on my car now, my first set of tires after the OEMs. They are not as stiff in the sidewall, but they seem to be on par with dry traction, MUCH better wet traction, and a little better in the cold, but I also rarely drive my car if it's going to be below freezing. I am going to need a new set of tires in a few months, and have been looking myself. Right now, I am probably going to go with the SPTs again. Other tires in the same category I have looked at get worse ratings on wet traction, road noise, and longevity, even if they do slightly better in handling and dry traction. I like to have fun in my car, but I also have to make long trips in it a lot, so the things I like about the tires far outweigh what I feel are small negatives. It all depends on what you're looking for!

Tire rack has all the tests and info for your question, but it looks like the Continental DWS is about as good as it gets before a actual snow tire.

If you hadn't mentioned cold (40 deg f), I'd say Hankook Ventus V12; better grip than SPT's dry or wet.