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hellaflush
I am starting this thread in hopes to stir up an intelligent conversation about hellaflush . I have researched quite a bit and many conversations have arose but there is not much depth to them. most people say its just a trend and there is no handling or performance gains to it
here is some info I have got from reading history: from reading trying to find somewhat of a history so far is it derived from drift cars in japan . it came about in the begining in nor cal as a joke amongst a group of drifters experimenting with negative cambers . some would say similar to VIP Style some bosozoku style in japan (translates to gang car or violent running tribe) definition of hella a word unique to the San Francisco Bay Area means , yes , good , a lot , totally , very, degrees of flushness Mexi: When the offset of the wheels are off by a lot and are poking out of the fender. You see this a lot on low riders, lots of new 240 and ae86 owners, sometimes boro car owners in japan, and on 1970's vans for some odd reason. Flush: Perfect Offset. Lowered but not slammed. Most people in our community refer to these as daily drivers. About a half inch fender to tire gap. Lots of drifters are flush just cause any lower, you'll be dragging body kit as seen on Matt Powers and Mad Mike in his RX8, which we'll use to defined the term Hellaflush. Almost: is exactly that, Almost. Almost perfect offset. Almost the perfect ride height. Super close but not quite there yet. Hellaflush: Perfect Offset, Super Slammed and Driveable. Most owners scrape over everything and it doesn't bother them. Its a lifestyle decision that many people don't want to get out of and conform to. Tucked: Seen on a lot of VIP and bagged cars. in conclusion I found depending on the setup its all about improving drift performance or just all about style and looks. Its your decision to go with it or not tune your car to your style of driving and have fun that's what its all about right. references: http://speedhunters.com/archive/2009...efinition.aspx http://caldw3l.blogspot.com/2010/05/...2k-sheesh.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hella_%28word%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIP_style http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C5%8Ds%C5%8Dzoku http://www.rawnewengland.com/site/bo...rolling-tribe/ http://hellaflush.com/ |
Originally Posted by tony.colombo
(Post 3813219)
I am starting this thread in hopes to stir up an intelligent conversation about hellaflush .
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See forum member: Tiltmode
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it's fact that it doesn't improve handling or performance whatsoever. it's a trend, a style, simple as that. there is an aggressive wheel fitment thread. i myself have 'hellaflushed' my 8. it's my car, it's the style i chose, and no matter what anyone says to me...it's what i'm gonna do. but i'll tell you straight up, not for performance since my camber is so off wack, tires are like toilet paper...i go thru them so fast, it's a total bitch daily driving it...
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Originally Posted by Im_DANomite
(Post 3813396)
it's fact that it doesn't improve handling or performance whatsoever. it's a trend, a style, simple as that. there is an aggressive wheel fitment thread. i myself have 'hellaflushed' my 8. it's my car, it's the style i chose, and no matter what anyone says to me...it's what i'm gonna do. but i'll tell you straight up, not for performance since my camber is so off wack, tires are like toilet paper...i go thru them so fast, it's a total bitch daily driving it...
completely understand there is a aggressive wheel fitment thread but I feel this is a separate conversation than that . and agreed hellaflushed wouldn't but I think a strong balance of this fitment could. I say this because once upon a time I inadvertently put the wrong type of rims on my 300ZX and it did improve cornering although the flip side of that is I ran through tires faster till I got the camber just right . If you look at some of the formula D drift cars they have a similar setup just not as extreme grabed this photo from super street online. this would be flush no http://image.superstreetonline.com/f..._drift+rx8.jpg |
My alignment is perfect and my flush is less than hella, but i go through tires mad quick...
DAMN THOSE TEMPTING TIRE SHREDDING CORNERS! |
Originally Posted by tony.colombo
(Post 3813516)
completely understand there is a aggressive wheel fitment thread but I feel this is a separate conversation than that . and agreed hellaflushed wouldn't but I think a strong balance of this fitment could.
I say this because once upon a time I inadvertently put the wrong type of rims on my 300ZX and it did improve cornering although the flip side of that is I ran through tires faster till I got the camber just right . If you look at some of the formula D drift cars they have a similar setup just not as extreme grabed this photo from super street online. this would be flush no http://image.superstreetonline.com/f..._drift+rx8.jpg |
Originally Posted by pdxhak
(Post 3813708)
drift is about style and performance that is judged. imo that is why it is an event and not a true sport.
but I and many do not look at drifting as just an event. Takes skills and there is competition involved and points awarded , winners declared takes a lot of science to figure out handling if you want to get it right . but I guess like I said guess just depends on perspective |
Lots of events take an incredible amount of skill. Take for example gymnastics and ice skating vs. boxing and wresting. All four take serious skill to compete at the highest level. All four are judged sports. However a boxer and or wrestler can win on their own merit regardless of what a judge thinks. And like a gymnast or ice skater, a drifter can only win based on opinion.
Anyway I'm getting hella off topic ;) |
Debate is inevitable, so we might as well make it lively!
Originally Posted by pdxhak
(Post 3813773)
All four are judged sports... And like a gymnast or ice skater, a drifter can only win based on opinion.
Furthermore, fitment, aggressive body kits, etc help add to the flare of a car/driver; it's not like a driver will automatically be scored higher because his/her wheels are "hella-flush." Take, for example, the Full Tilt poker 8 and Mad Mike's 8; different styles entirely, but Mike won't automatically place better strictly because he's got aggro aero and silly fitment. These factors really help add to the aura of his car though, which may or may not effect the overall presentation. Drifting takes skill, just as any other style based sport. The hellaflush "movement" may be a trend, but so are all other styles, for everything. Fashion, car modding, music; they all change with time, but that doesn't mean anything less of them. Some individuals genuinely like certain styles, other jump into certain styles because they think it's "cool." It seems most people think that those into "hellaflush" setups are all hype-beasts, jumping on the latest trends. This may be true for some, but I don't think it is true for all. Hellaflush is an overall style, much like dump n' tucked, lifted trucks, and track ready cars; many of the owners love it for what it is, not simply to gain attention. OP - This could be a fun thread, though, sooner than later we're sure to get some close-minded "my way or the highway" individuals who don't realize there are various aspects to car modifications *PAGING TeamRX8* May want to fix that typo (boro = boso?), btw :P Let's not mix up "hellaflush" with "demon camber" influenced styles - for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, take a quick read here -> http://www.7tune.com/oni-kyan-shakot...-hippari-tire/ Personally, I love seeing aggressive wheel fitments. For the rx8, I love meaty tires that are truly flush with the fenders. Sometimes it irks me seeing great handling cars such as the S2000 on wheel setups that defeat the purpose of the car - handling; but this is just a personal preference. I, for one, likely drive my car harder than many others on the forum and enjoy doing so tremendously. Even with my current scrub radius and slightly less than desirable ride height (control arms w/slightly negative pitch) I still fully and genuinely enjoy my car, both cruising the boulevard, and driving the twisties, equally as much. |
That was a typo on my part :) To me it is just an event. Call it a sporting event if you like. These judged events are very competitive at the highest level. But style and subjective opinion are what determine the winner.
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Remember though, it's not purely subjective, and is averaged among multiple judges.
I understand what you mean though, a lack of fine lined rules. Personally, I think drifting is on a similar level of other automotive competition; Just another variety altogether. Different strokes for different folks! |
Originally Posted by tiltmode43
(Post 3813871)
Debate is inevitable, so we might as well make it lively!
In my opinion, sport refers to some sort of competition or challenge, typically requiring physical endurance. That last part is unimportant if you consider road-racing to be a sport. If you do, however, then I would imagine drifting should be considered a sport as well. The fact that you listed both gymnastics and ice-skating as "sports" illustrates the same reason drifting may be considered a sport. I'm no drifter, nor do I try to act as one, but I do know it's not 100% about style. There are guidelines, goals, and skill involved in what can be considered a 'perfect' run; implying that it is all about style is misleading. Sure, judging is technically subjective but you can't simply say that because of this, the competition is one level lower or less important in any way, necessarily. Furthermore, fitment, aggressive body kits, etc help add to the flare of a car/driver; it's not like a driver will automatically be scored higher because his/her wheels are "hella-flush." Take, for example, the Full Tilt poker 8 and Mad Mike's 8; different styles entirely, but Mike won't automatically place better strictly because he's got aggro aero and silly fitment. These factors really help add to the aura of his car though, which may or may not effect the overall presentation. Drifting takes skill, just as any other style based sport. The hellaflush "movement" may be a trend, but so are all other styles, for everything. Fashion, car modding, music; they all change with time, but that doesn't mean anything less of them. Some individuals genuinely like certain styles, other jump into certain styles because they think it's "cool." It seems most people think that those into "hellaflush" setups are all hype-beasts, jumping on the latest trends. This may be true for some, but I don't think it is true for all. Hellaflush is an overall style, much like dump n' tucked, lifted trucks, and track ready cars; many of the owners love it for what it is, not simply to gain attention. OP - This could be a fun thread, though, sooner than later we're sure to get some close-minded "my way or the highway" individuals who don't realize there are various aspects to car modifications *PAGING TeamRX8* May want to fix that typo (boro = boso?), btw :P Let's not mix up "hellaflush" with "demon camber" influenced styles - for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about, take a quick read here -> http://www.7tune.com/oni-kyan-shakot...-hippari-tire/ Personally, I love seeing aggressive wheel fitments. For the rx8, I love meaty tires that are truly flush with the fenders. Sometimes it irks me seeing great handling cars such as the S2000 on wheel setups that defeat the purpose of the car - handling; but this is just a personal preference. I, for one, likely drive my car harder than many others on the forum and enjoy doing so tremendously. Even with my current scrub radius and slightly less than desirable ride height (control arms w/slightly negative pitch) I still fully and genuinely enjoy my car, both cruising the boulevard, and driving the twisties, equally as much. thanks tiltmode I couldn't have said it better myself and exactly what I was trying to encourage in this thread and went through great lengths to try and word the thread to not get a black and white answer and try to explain that what I believe is its not all just hype in a proper setup there is a bit of function. but like you said there will be some debate which is encouraged as long as its "intelligent" :smoker: |
I also think it's important to hold some respect for different styles, when pulled off properly. Simply because one person is into something that you aren't, doesn't mean that other person's preference is garbage.
Just to add some pictures to this thread, this is the s2000 I had in mind when I made that earlier post. The tires just look so narrow in the rear, though I was there for a short time in the past >_< http://ll.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagam...ap/flush2k.jpg |
It looks sick from this angle, but you know it looks awkward from the rear with those skimpy 205 tires on 9.5" rim :p:
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Originally Posted by tiltmode43
(Post 3813900)
Remember though, it's not purely subjective, and is averaged among multiple judges.
I understand what you mean though, a lack of fine lined rules. Personally, I think drifting is on a similar level of other automotive competition; Just another variety altogether. Different strokes for different folks! Do not take any of comments as hating. I always appreciate a properly executed clean ride regardless of style. |
Originally Posted by pdxhak
(Post 3814165)
I know there are multiple judges. But there is also in the other competition I mentioned. All it takes is 1 biased judge and you no chance to win.
Do not take any of comments as hating. I always appreciate a properly executed clean ride regardless of style. In most competitions the highest and lowest votes are discarded for that reason :) With that said i must admit that some "hellaflush" rides look cool. However i'm more a function>form type of guy so a car that looks cool but doesn't drive great is not my cup of tea. |
Originally Posted by pdxhak
(Post 3814165)
I always appreciate a properly executed clean ride regardless of style.
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Nothing says performance like a hellaflush minivan
http://fatlace.com/lacedup/wp-conten...10/12/main.jpg I'm not haitin' but this is a topic that is covered in another thread. I can appreciate the work that goes into this "lifestyle" that so many people call it. It's just another trend in cars though. The seventies had raised cars with poked tires. The eighties had tall side wall stretches with poked lips and stock ride heights. The nineties had tucked low profile tires and fully reversed dayton knockoffs. The 2000's started to push low profile agressive looking tire and wheel combos, and now we have hellaflush. Some of it has died out, some of it has stuck around. Who fucking cares. It's up to the owner of the car and his/her likes and dislikes. I like track prepped cars. Wide, sticky tires on wide wheels, cages, race seats, splitters, and rubber spots with road rash on the front of the car. I wish you luck in diving into this subject. You'll find that you can't have performance and hellaflush at the same time. Drifting does not mean performance. If you're missing a bumper, body parts and paint, something is missing as far as performance goes. |
It's on bags, but yeah that looks crazy. I would drive it :p:
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Originally Posted by fuztupnz
(Post 3815663)
You'll find that you can't have performance and hellaflush at the same time.
The cars tony.colombo posted all have flush fitment, which isn't too unheard of for track cars; Looks great too! Not hellaflush though. |
style just like going to h&m and shit its all to look good, who cares about performance when your on probation anywaylol
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not sure its all style maybe some of the ridiculas show cars but sip on this
whole concept of the negative camber treatment comes from mountain races where there are not many straight aways all turns which is when negative camber comes to its light the more area of the tire connects with the road the better your performance/grip in the corners. straight line performance doesn't = all performance more negative camber goodness http://www.topnews.in/files/F1-car.jpg |
to a certain point, then it becomes counter productive
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