Throw Out Bearing failure on new clutch
 

I purchased the Exedy "MazdaSpeed" Clutch Kit (10803AHD) from BHR last September and finally got around to installing it a couple months ago. Ever since I installed the clutch, I have been dealing with the same issues in this thread from a few years back. (funky pedal feel on start up/had to let the car warm up before it would go into any gear) Everything was working fine before this clutch came into play.

I adjusted the master cylinder rod as much as I could and I bled the clutch lines multiple times to try and fix this problem. I continued to drive the car for the next 2,000 miles, right up until my transmission kicked the bucket. I imagine the problem with the clutch added more stress to the transmission and prematurely sent it to the big junkyard in the sky.

A couple weeks ago, I had some time off from work so I decided to drop the transmission and send it off somewhere to be rebuilt. This is what I was greeted with when I rolled the transmission out from underneath the car:

Attachment 288880
Attachment 288881

As you can probably tell, the throw out bearing is completely trashed.


I'm just looking for some insight as to why this happened. I'm hoping that I can get this resolved before I put a fresh transmission in the car.


-Mr_Insulin

I had the same problem, although my clutch was a stage 3 set up. (stupid on my part for using a stage 3 on a daily driver) that's the reason mine took a dump or so I was told.

Best bet is too stay OEM unless your tracking it or weekend ride only...

When the clutch was replaced was a new TB installed? Got any pics of the clutch?

Yes, this is the new TB. I don't have any pictures of the clutch at the moment.
I inspected the clutch and there was no damage that I could see. All the pressure plate bolts were still tight and there are no missing/damaged fingers, etc.

Weird. I have seen some pretty bad ones but never that bad, especially with so few miles.

Indeed. I was pretty surprised when I saw it as well..

That was only a few months old. It looks a bad as my 110K mile one after it failed. I think I got more pieces than you did, not sure though...

Only thing I can think is that it was too far forward, and always touching the fingers. The post you referenced pointed to 2 problems, one was a softer clutch at higher RPM. Did you have that problem as well? The soft pedal is from the pressure plate being too close to the flywheel. This moves the friction surface back a bit too far, and the levers (fingers) that the release bearing push on move in a bit. One result is that they are now positioned such that as the engine spins up, instead of their mass helping press the plates together, they actually start to work against the clutch springs and lighten the pedal. This also moves the contact point for the release bearing a bit closer to the engine (1/4" maybe) and for some reason, makes the pedal a little squishy. Maybe it has something to do with the yoke and slave piston, and linkages, being in unintended positions, not sure. Since the trans is out, can you easily tell if the fingers are crowned, or flat? The ones in this picture are too flat, and caused the problem I am referring to. I only drove the car for a few days before I parked it until Charles figured out a fix.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-9...Car+_00611.JPG

My fix was to space the pressure plate out about 0.060" (about the thickness of a washer for lowes) and all became well.

Best I got.

BTW, this is what my bearing looked like... I did not break the race but I did melt the carrier.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-v...Car+_00606.JPG

Is this clutch also referred to the "stage 1"?

If so I had many of the same problems. Couldn't get the pedal to adjust within spec, couldn't get the clutch to engage/disengage properly, lots of weird noises from the clutch and bellhousing at various running states. I ended up pulling the transmission and replacing everything with an OEM clutch kit after only 100 miles and the clutch disc was already fraying. I shipped everything back to BHR so Ray could take a look at it. I didn't take a specific look at the release bearing though.

This is all after my previous stage 1 burst after ~20,000 miles of the same driving that got me 89,000 on the OEM clutch. All new hydraulics too. The OEM one installed right up, zero problems, zero noises, only a slight clutch pedal adjustment needed and everything fell within spec without a problem.

Ray said that I wasn't the only customer of his with these problems on that clutch, I figured some of the other customers would surface :) I added a caution against the stage 1 on my modding guide after the most recent issue.

Mine is a stage 1, if that is the question... Is fine since the washers were added, but was ugly up until that point.

I added the washers to start with per Ray's recommendation, and it was garbage from the start. Copper 0.060" from the local hardware store.

i had the same problem. the exedy "hd" tb sucks. the bearing face that impacts the teeth is half the size of oem, and its shorter. i replaced it with a koyo bearing and a ss clutch line, and its been perfect ever since.

Hmm. I was about to say "maybe I could have saved a chunk just putting in the old release bearing", but that was also from a stage1, so it would have had a similar problem. I didn't even look at the release bearing closely, and I'm thinking I should have.

Mine works fine, no issue, kit I have came from Koyo Bearing.

Well,
I feel better knowing I wasn't the only one with this issue.
I had the same problem within 1,000 miles of having it installed on my '04.

That sucks. I am running an OEM replacement on mine and I have had no issues even with boost.

That's 6 of us so far with this problem just in this thread.

Agreed with OEM 9k. Installing the OEM one made the problems disappear.

I had the same sort of issue, but on the pilot bearing side, after initial install of a new light weight flywheel and clutch kit from SR Motorsports in my ride by a stealership. My blowup was due to a crappy alignment job by the tech monkey that did the work. Had similar symptoms, plus occasional notchiness and engagement issues at low RPM's (especially in reverse). Initially blamed it mostly on myself - getting used to the feel of the lighweight components over stock - plus a little wishful thinking that it was part of breaking in the new assembly. New pilot bearing post first kit install lasted 2,000 miles before it exploded in a bumper to bumper interstate highway crawl for 15 miles on a business trip. Reinstall by a different garage confirmed the alignment issue at the stealership. Second install has been puuurfect with no issues at all.

Yup. I had the exact same problems that were discussed in that thread.

The fingers are pretty damn flat.

I shimmed the pressure plate with .070" thick washers when I installed the clutch.

This clutch is the stage 1 kit with a "heavy duty release bearing". I can't remember if it has a higher clamp load than the regular stage 1.


Edit: This clutch is the heavy duty version of the Stage 1 w/ Heavy Duty Release bearing.

Exedy Stage 1 Clutches:

10803A - Disc Size 236mm
Spline Teeth / Major Dia 23T / 26.2mm
Clamping Force/Load exerted (lbs) 1895
Disc Material Organic
Number of Disc Single
Type (Push/Pull) Push
Sprung Center (D-core) Yes
Clutch Torque 250
Torque Capacity at Wheels 248
Torque Capacity at Flywheel 310

10803AHD (Mine) - Disc Size 236mm
Spline Teeth / Major Dia 23T / 26.2mm
Clamping Force/Load exerted (lbs) 2360
Disc Material Organic
Number of Disc Single
Type (Push/Pull) Push
Sprung Center (D-core) Yes
Clutch Torque 486
Torque Capacity at Wheels 310
Torque Capacity at Flywheel 387

Only other thing is greasing the release bearing. I have heard that they come greased, and that you have to add the grease. I worked mine a lot, but never could convince myself I got grease in it. But, mine is still running, and has 3 track weekends on it.

Best I got.

I also have the 10803AHD kit, and I've been having similar issues. I thought it was the hydraulics at first like Insulin, and kept adjusting the push rod out into the master. Then my master started leaking into the car... I just swapped the master and slave last week and bled the system 3 times. It was running great last night. 20 minutes ago I just tried to back out of my garage, but I couldn't get it into gear. The push rod is adjusted pretty much as far in as I can get it, too.

I'm dreading having to take the transmission back off, but I sent an email off to Exedy Technical Support and linked them to this thread. Hopefully they come back with something, but it looks like I'll be putting my car back up on jack stands and driving my other POS cars this week.

**Edit**

I forgot to mention that I've only put about 500 miles on the new clutch.

OK, to attempt to understand...

So, the problem is that, with a new clutch, and a new release bearing, everything goes to hell in some cars. Right? The master cylinder is the same, the slave cylinder is the same, the yoke is the same, the spring on the yoke is the same. Right? But for some reason, you have to adjust the pedal rod all the way in, and it still does not work.

So, something changed across between the old configuration of the release bearing, the clutch fingers, the pressure plate, the clutch, the flywheel and the counterweight. I would suggest that the flywheel is in the right place, for those that changed the flywheel, because the starter still engages. It is mounted to the transmission body, and in the same position as before.

This means something between the friction surface on the flywheel, the clutch disk, the pressure plate, the fingers or the release bearing is changing. Let's say the entire height is shorter, and this means the release bearing has to travel further to do its job.

My thought is that this would put the yoke in a different position. I think that the yoke will only be as far forward as required by the release bearing and will be in a different position if the overall height of all the parts inside has changed. I do not believe that the slave cylinder will pull it forward. This could also lead to a small gap between the slave push rod and the cup on the yoke. If you were to reach in and push the yoke forward, and it moved, that might be an indicator. Problem is I do not know what is normal.

The manual has a procedure for adjusting pedal play (the screw), pedal stroke (the rod) and release point (the rod). Has anyone tried messing with the pedal play adjustment? An issue with pedal play that could not be resolved could indicate that the yoke is not where it was intended to be.

Or, is this a stupid idea coming from too much beer and Easter candy?

Similar conclusion that Ray and I have. Something changed in the total stack height of the pressure plate + clutch disc + release bearing. And it is either inconsistent or just plain wrong.

:suspect:

I made sure the bearing had plenty of lube whenever I installed the clutch. I have emailed you a few times regarding this issue but I dropped the ball and stopped responding to your questions for some reason. I'll shoot you an email today.