T1 & T2 not firing
 

:dunno: 2004 Rx-8 Starting Problems :dunno:
I ordered a BHR ignition system because I couldn't start my 8. Prior to ordering them I tested my old coils and 3 of the 4 were bad. I just installed the new BHR complete ignition system and found that both of the Trailing cylinders are not firing at all. I did the old fashion spark check and got a great spark from both the Leading coils but nothing from the Trailing coils. I then swapped the ohm checked the coils and swapped them around to ensure it wasn't the coils. It's not the coils, anyone have any idea what my next step is? What controls the firing of the coils? I'd appreciate any help. Thanks!

are you sure that the order is right? the connection from factory to BHR? you should try to switch it with stock coils, if it's still doesn't fire, then i believe it's your ECU, but i doubt it..
steven

It has to either be the control wiring, the coils, the plug wires, or the ECU

oh yeah, also operator error

Well to Isolate and confirm the problem, I took a known good BHR, started by ohming it out, then placed it in the L1 position and using the new plug wires that came with the BHR Ignition System I cranked the engine and checked for spark. Then using the same configuration I simply disconnected the BHR coil from the control wiring and plugged it to T1 connection leaving everything else as it was. I cranked the engine and nothing! Repositioned plug wire and ground wire to make sure, cranked again and nothing. Disconnected BHR Coil from T1 and connected it to L2 went back tor L1 config as far as placement of plug and ground wires, cranked the engine and bingo great spark again! Keep in mind the only thing I'm changing is the control wire to the same coil. So finally I moved to T2 control wire connection, cranked it, and nothing again, tried repositioning as before just in case, and nothing. Finally I went back to L1 to ensure the placement of the plug and ground wires was good and again cranked it, and got an awesome spark! So is there anything that controlls just the L and T seperately? Is there a way to ohm out the control wiring? I doubt its the wiring since the engine only has 40K on it. So to sum it up, I have a brand new set of BHR Coils, all fired great at the L1 position thru their respective wires, as well as at the L2 position, Plugs are brand new.

If it ends up being the ECU, any recommendations?

Is this a stock Mazda ECU flash?

Another question, the more I read them more things get interesting. Is the ECU and the PCM the same thing? If not where are they located? I read that something was located under the Passenger seat with a very sharp metal cover, then I read that the PCM has a break away set bolt? I just saw a diagram showing me the connectors to the coils at the PCM so I'll be ohming those out here pretty soon, I just have to find the damn thing. Thanks

aren't there some scenarios where the trailing plugs do not fire? (does the car actually run, can you check it with a timing light?)

+1 Charles

You are the guy to turn to when it comes to any ignition concerns

Forgive us Lord Charles.

Btw, I recieved the wires today. Thanks again for what you did. :)

Bad coils? or connectors?

Aw man! Now you've all gone and done it!

so what ended up being the problem?

Still in work?
BTW, I did contact Charles via email first.
Yes it's still OEM ECU Flashing.
No it won't turn on.
As soon as I get it running I will post it.

To clarify the problem started with a cold evening and the car refusing to start, so I thought I flooded it. I let it sit over night and no help. Started T-Shooting, found 2 really fouled plugs, so I replaced them all. Still wouldn't start. I did a spark check and didn't get any spark from any of the original OEM coils except form L1. So I decided to go with the BEST from the start and I ordered the complete BHR ignition system. Installed it and thought it would start right up. Well it tried but it never started. Rather than burning out the starter, or messing up a brand BHR system I decided to take my one good coil and check for spark. BTW I verified the coil was good by ohming it as well as all of the old ones. Only one checked goood as per my original T-Shooting.

When I took the known good one and checked for spark, I was only able to get spark at L1&2 but nothing at T1 or 2. Just to verify I used the BHR coils and wires and placed each one on L1&2 and got great spark, but when I placed them on T1 or 2 nothing!

At this time Charles (BHR Guru) is hooking me up via email (Thanks Charles !!!). I don't think it's the BHR system, but rather something else, but don't want to go ballistic changing out very expensive parts for no reason, if it's something simple.

Will keep you posted when I finally get it running! I will get it running!

Thanks for everyones support

IT's RUNNING!!!
I went to the dealer and explained my situation and they were very helpful. The Service Mngr allowed me to speak with the Technician and he mentioned that this thing had so many sensors its crazy. Any way, one of the sensors is on the starter, it tells the PCM/ECU when excessive cranking has occurred to keep from burning it out. Anyway, my son (owner/driver of the car) never told me he had a check engine light prior to the whole mess starting. I also found out through talking with the Srvc Mngr at the Dealer that my son had taken the car in and they had diagnosed 2 bad coils. So from the start I didn't know that I had a check engine light, and two bad coils.

Armed with this info I removed the battery from the car to fully trickle charge it. After a 24hr trickle charge, I had my son (20 yr old know it all) step on the brake for 30-60 seconds to clear any and all codes from the PCM/ECU and then re-installed the battery, and the new BHR Coils.

Bingo it started!!! So if in this situation I suggest that you remove the ground wire and step on the brake for approx 30 seconds, (brake is the only continuously active system), this will remove any stored codes and allow for a fresh start.

With new Plugs, K&N cold air intake, and BHR ignition system Zoom Zoom it flies, I hear this thing is now capable of speeds in excess of 153 mph, not that my son or I would ever go that fast to see what it was capable off (wink). But I can tell you we can now easily accelerate in 6th gear! It sounds awesome! If it had air foil I bet I could get it off the ground.

If anyone is considering the BHR System, Go for it! the entire kit! Because according to the dealer it is very common for the OEM coils to go out frequently!

Charles these coils look as if they are going to last a long time and for now I'm very happy with the new stuff. My son couldn't stop talking about how the 8 feels like a completely different car!

well this answer is moot now but yeah it sounded like you need to reset your eshaft profile which is what 20 brake stomp does. after that(for future reference) checking the sensor is clean.

you are in the UK or have a UK spec RX-8? then your ecu/pcm(same thing) is located int he engine compartment and yours is fixed with bolts that have to be cut to access it. apparently doing so in the UK can void your warranty.

and here is another example of how important it is to ask question to ensure you know the whole situation before attempting to diagnose or fix. the info from his son was vital.

The PCM doesn't fire the trailing plugs during initial cranking. They begin to fire when the RPM exceeds 500 RPM or so.
The car is started on the leading coils only, so you cannot verify the function of the trailing coils during cranking.

and you have to do the 20 brake pedal tap eshaft reset with the battery connected, it does nothing when the battery is disconnected, any codes got cleared after the battery was disconnected for an extended period

my head hurts ...

:wavey: