Spark plug wire question
 

I've been using the BHR kit for about three months now with no car troubles until yesterday. And I want to preface this by saying that I am not placing the blame for my troubles on the kit. The other day I started the car after about a 6 second crank. After it started the car was idling at a lower rpm than usual (600 or so). I started to drive it and then when I stopped to wait for a light, the rpm at idle just kept dropping until finally the engine just shut off. I restarted the engine and drove it home (careful to keep the idle rpm above 800). I had a AAA guy come out to test the battery/alternator/starter and each of them were running great. He thought it might have something to do with the fuel system.

I took it to a Mazda dealer today (with no problems starting and idling) and explained the problem. After an initial diagnostic test they recommended scheduling an appointment to run a compression test. I had a compression test done about 6 months ago for peace of mind after I bought the 06 rx8 with around 36K miles and both rotors came back just fine. I have an appointment scheduled for Monday.

Is it possible that the BHR kit could have something to do with this? Everything else is stock.

I plan on taking the kit off today and putting the stock wires/coils back on (so to not bring up warranty issues if God forbid I have to get a new engine). My only problem is that while I labeled the coils to make sure I could put them back in the right way, I didn't label the wires. I'm assuming that it is important to put them on in the right places T1L1T2L2. Could someone tell me if it matters which wire goes to T1 or T2 (same for L1 and L2?. The markings I can read on each one are F12, F13, F14, and F3. Two of my wires have the green tape on them (one also has blue).

Thanks for the help!

Ummm right so lemme think.
First thing, the coils will not have caused your compression problem if this ends up being the issue.

Next:
I'm not understanding how you removed the coils.
The coil kit I received from BHR was all together on a aluminum chassis. The whole thing went on as a unit and comes off as a unit. (Well it's only type I've seen of the BHR coil set)
You shouldn't be removing the coils one by one?

Next:
Its not important how the coils go back on in the same order, but it's very important to get the spark plug leads from the coil to the spark plug in the right order.
And (my own opinion here) it doesn't make a difference what spark plug lead you use for which spark plug just as long as it reaches (of course).

I have no idea what the F#'s are ...

Found these two threads right away using the google
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/oem-ignition-wires-188487/
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/rx8-coiling-pattern-197400/

Are you using spark plug leads from BHR?
Ray is putting tape on them now?

I'm sorry but this whole setup sounds suspect to me. Did you really buy this from BHR directly?

This should help you out.

Attachment 238806

WCS: I removed the BHR kit with no problem. I installed the factory coils back on with no problem. My problem is, I didn't label the factory spark plug wires when I initially removed them when installing the BHR kit. Two have the green tape on them, and I know that means that they are the trailing wires. What I don't know is if it matters which one goes to T1 and which to T2. Any ideas?

Ahhhh right the factory ones you're putting back on ... sorry I was confused (its Sunday that's my excuse)

If I was doing this ... I wouldn't give a crap which wire I used as long as it reached ...
It does not matter.

Found this little snippet from Mazsurfer
L1 = Green
T1 = White
L2 = Yellow/Green
T2 = Blue/Orange

I also see RIWWP is watching the thread ... he's a great resource, know's more than I do which is good as I've gotta run, I've got a hockey game to play soon.
Good luck

WCS: Thanks for your replies!
RIWWP: What's your opinion for the question I posted regarding the two trailing wires. Does it matter which one goes to 1 and which one goes to 2?

Yes. You must have your wires in the exact order of the picture. Anything else is at best a terribly running engine. At worse it is engine damage.

Think about it for a second, each rotor is 50% opposed from the other for balancing purposes, and as each is a 3 sided object, when plugs for one rotor is firing, the other rotor is exactly halfway between the intended firing points, or roughly when the apex seal is passing the plugs. Kinda pointless to fire it then, right?

I guess then here is my problem: what I'm left with is four factory wires. Two have green tape (one also has blue tape). And the others don't have any tape. From what I understand the green ones are the trailing and the ones without the colored tape are the leading. Is there anything else that can be used to distinguish the wires? Or any other way to find out?

Thanks

The only difference between the wires is the length. The longest will fit any, the shortest will only fit 2 I think (can't reach the rear rotor plugs).

It doesn't actually matter which wire is on which plug, there is no internal difference, except some of them just can't span far enough between the coil and plug.


Edit:
And I didn't think Ray put tape on his wires, and they are all whatever color you ordered from him. The BHR kit comes with upgraded wires. Why aren't you using those?

Attachment 238805



Here is a color pic of the wire order, though this is OEM coils and aftermarket wires.
http://www.racingbeat.com/images/items/11516.1.jpg

I am reinstalling the oem wires and coils since I'll be taking my car in for a compression test and I don't want to risk the BHR kit voiding the engine replacement warranty. The tape I referenced was on the original spark plug wires before I got the BHR kit.

So what I'm hearing from you (just to be clear) is that it doesn't matter which wire is used as long as the correct coil and spark plug are being connected?

Ah, that first line clears up so much confusion :)


That is correct. The wires are just there to carry the charge from coil to plug. The only thing that matters is which coil is firing which plug, and the wire order is what determines that.

Thank you. I will get back to work then!

Just finished and started it up with no problems. I appreciate your help!

I thought that this is what I was trying to say.
:(
Sorry OP that I'm not very good at articulating my thought process

SWEET!
Please update us on what the dealership says.

Post back with compression results

>>>and please contact BHR about your concerns too. Most common issue I have heard about with the BHR kit is either a poor ground or a defective spark plug wire. Either way, the folks at BHR will jump through hoops to make sure your in good shape.

I've been running my BHR coil kit for several years now with no problems, although I did have a bad wire on initial install (could have been an out of the box failure or I could have damaged it on install - no way to tell) and BHR crew took good care of me!

Update:

Took it in to the dealer today. They did a compression test and one of the rotors had fallen to 5.3 which is too low. The other was a little better at 6.2. The verdict: new engine! I'm still just baffled why the compression dropped so much since only 6 months ago I had it tested and both were fine. I never once did a cold shut off. I did my best to keep the carbon buildup at bay with frequent red lines and aggressive driving. I cleaned the MAF sensor like 4 times in 6 months. The car only has 44K miles. I changed the oil regularly. I put in new spark plugs. Only mod was the BHR kit.

Where did I go wrong? I don't want to do it again...

Obviously speaking in vague generalities here, but the two main killers of rotary engines as I undersatnd them are compromised oil flow into the combustion process and excessive heat.

Both can be attributed to multiple causes.

There are quite a few ways that a rotary engine can lose compression. And not all of them have solution available.

For example, low lubrication can lead to apex seal wear, and we have lubrication improvements for this, but none are perfect. Cooling trouble can lead to oil breakdown and seal deformation, and we have tons of cooling upgrades that can help this. Carbon buildup can make seals stick or ride unevenly, and we have some theoretical solutions for that. High exhaust temps can make the side seal springs deform and snap, and we have no solution for that.

For any given engine, all you can do is keep as many risks to minimum as possible, just like heart health. Nothing can prevent someone from dying at 2 of heart failure, and it's possible for someone to live to 90+ drinking heavily, smoking, fatty foods, etc... Same thing with our engine really.

That "if" is too much for many people to handle.

Me? I am perfectly fine with it.

you must have plenty of money to throw away ,unlike some people here just like the BHR coil kit at 500$ that is a lot of money for me with kids at christmas time !!!!