Is the occasional "long crank" thing normal?
 

For the first year or two of owning my 2004 (I'm the original owner), I never, ever had a "long crank" incident. But for many years now, it occasionally (1 in 20 starts maybe) takes 3 seconds to start instead of the usual 1 second or so.

It doesn't struggle to start (I know the difference, I've had bad coils, etc.), it just seems to not get any fuel/spark until 3 seconds instead of the usual 1 second startup, and then it starts normally.

It did this with my original engine, and even now with a new engine, coils, plugs, wires, battery, battery wires, O2 sensor, air filter and cleaning the MAF. The only thing not recently replaced is the starter, but it is the upgraded starter installed four years ago.

Just curious if any Series I owners never, ever get a "long crank" now?

Is it possible Mazda programmed a "long crank" into the ECU for certain starting circumstances?

I've never verified a common pattern. It's done it with the engine cold, with it hot, during winter and summer, after steady commutes and after redlining fun runs through the countryside, after shutting it off normally and after revving it up a little before shutoff.

No problems with the car, it runs great, it starts fine (no sputter, etc.), it just now and then cranks for 3 seconds instead of 1. It's just the inconsistency that makes me wonder about it.

I get it every now and then, I always suspected a leaky fuel injector...

You could try an ESS profile reset (20 brake pedal stomp) to start with.

BC.

Yup, done that a few times over the years (and since getting the replacement engine too).

Also reset the ECU a number of times (to clear a bad gas cap CEL) by pulling out the "Room Fuse" for awhile.

Leaky injector is a thought. Starter too I suppose, but I'd think it'd be a consistent problem then, not just 1 in 20 starts? And would probably struggle to start, which it doesn't do. It's as if the spark/fuel is just delayed 3 seconds instead of 1.

Does anyone have a Series I that *never* ever has a three+ second start?

When mine takes +3 sec to start it sounds flooded (no compression) that's why I always thought it was a leaky injector.

I've had my 05 MT for 3 months now...replacement engine a week after buying it. I've noticed the same behavior. Haven't seen a pattern as to why yet...

Not normal and only the P1's are working at start up so I doubt it's a leaky injector.

Only 1? That seems odd.
The only pattern I thought I saw was related to how long I kept the key in the "on" position before starting. But it can't be right...

Yeah IIRC, only one at startup and idle. I think dannobre was the one talking about it at some point and if he said it, then it's true because he knows his stuffs :)

To add another data point-- I've had it happen with my Series II twice in 3 months of ownership. I haven't noticed a pattern to it, just as Maries said. Apparently not just a SI issue. I just hit 6000 miles.

Oh I've tried that too. I started waiting until all the beeping and whirring sounds stop (4-5 seconds) before trying to actually start it, yet it still has the occasional long crank.

It's the sporadic randomness of it that puzzles me. It's impossible to reproduce for the dealer, and of course never happens when I try to record it with my smartphone.

I wondered if Mazda might have programmed a delayed start into a flash, as if you read through a very old post https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...47&postcount=9 it mentions "Another change in the M flash is that when cranking a cold engine now, the first 3 seconds there is no fuel injected."

That seems wrong, since most of our cars normally start in a second, whether cold or warm. But I wondered if maybe under certain odd conditions, the computer might delay it?

Ive noticed that when it's a cold start mine starts really quick and have that pretty loud "stable" noise which sounds normal but when it's a warm start it kinda sounds wimpy occasionally lol but I never get those really long cranking sound like i use to before my engine was replaced around 85k miles (I think mine lasted pretty long for 04 MT lol hopefully new one lasts me as long!)

I've been reading alot about how updated starter + BHR ignition system + Red top optima battery helps even just by changing one of the above. which is why i did the starter + red top battery cuz it's been maybe 3k miles since last ignition system change.

^coolant/air temp seems to have no effect on mine either.

Perhaps a sticking seal? I know it's only guessing, but my car does 90% city driving so carbon build up is always on my mind... But I also seafoam a lot, every 4kmiles (every other oil change).

Well I have all 3, bhr ignition, upgraded starter, and a R34 red top. Didn't help this problem.

It is really easy to foul plugs on a rotary. And add that to random fueling/oiling glitches...you might get a few turns before you get a good light off on startup. Just an alignment of the moon and stars kind of thing ;)

If it becomes more frequent then a compression test might make you sleep better.....

My wifes new Rav4 does the same thing sometimes...so it isn't just a rotary thing

Well, i tried to search what my car is exhibiting but no proper details. Now here is the thing, when sit overnight, it takes 2.5 to 3 seconds to start ( Upgraded starter as it is 2007 model 57k Mi so good cranking speed). On Hot, it starts within 1 second or instantly so i think compression is great. Car acceleration is fine. Smooth revs with no sputtering. Holds idle very well.

New plugs, coils, wires, good fuel pump pressure within Mazda specs , Ess service, Fuel injectors check done, Maf service and other ECU reset procedures done.

So basically, All things perfect but just can not figure out the overnight cold startup of 2.5 to 3 seconds. The car does not hesitate to start but just taking longer. Battery showing good power but it is 16 months old. Any ideas guys?

Is the occasional "long crank" thing normal?
 

Don't worry about 2.5 to 3 seconds. It could be because there's a bit of fuel sitting in there over night. Nothing at all to stress over.
My car starts better warm, also.

Thanks Rx8soldier for putting my mind at ease.

i was just stressing bcoz i saw many videos on youtube where Rx8's start within 1 to 1.5 seconds on cold and cranks 4 to 5 times when sit overnight ( MiINE TAKE 7,8 speedy cranks, that is why 2.5 to 3 seconds) and i was frustrated that mine does not and is not showing low compression symptoms and also ignition is new.

But thanks for giving one of the possibilities about sitting there overnight and making cold starts longer. But isn't this problem prevails and cold starting time increases gradually. is there any way i can avoid fuel sitting there overnight? Sorry for being stressful again

Is the occasional "long crank" thing normal?
 

What you could do is pull the spark plugs out in the morning before starting. Check to see if they're wet or smell like gas. If they are, you could have a leaking fuel injector(s).

Okay, will do that and post update in couple of days

i have Checked the plugs,no fuel smell . Also Checked the injectors, they are not leaking..Throttle also serviced. One of mechanics told me that engine is getting weak so that's why it is experiencing delayed starts at cold... But if the engine is weak, shouldn't it also be giving problems on hot starts? as mine never did and start instantly on hot.

As no rotary compression tester here so can't tell if my engine is going out. But anyways i will welcome any more ideas to where should i check to fix this long cold start ( 2.5 to 4 seconds cranking time)..

Thanks and oh yes, feeling a minor sputtering in exhaust at warm idle and idle holds well (Gutted cat). When sputter occurs, i can feel this on my driving seat. Maybe all of these symptoms points towards one problem and idk what.

A properly running Rx-8 should fire up with no hesitation (especially with the series 2 starter). There are a few things that need to be checked if this isn't happening. How old is your starter? Have you load tested your battery? Have you checked fuel pressure? It could be an array of things and the issue needs to be diagnosed methodically.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...6e0567dfbf.jpg

Well, you can not call it hesitation. its just taking long on COLD only. I have updated starter motor for 2007 model which is just serviced as well and cranks good. Fuel pressure is 57psi which is i think under mazda specs.

SSV and APV are not stuck, My mechanic here checked this already when we were checking injectors and injectors also looks clean. ESS was also serviced


About the battery, its 16 month old, will check tomorrow with my friend's car battery attached to mine with jump cables and see if cranking time improves. After that, will check for other things mentioned in the service pic above.

AND yes, you are right, i will have to solve this problem step by step methodically until all the things sorted out and only low compression is left.:( which means im doomed and time for a swap.

The updated S1 starter motor still doesn't hold a candle to the S2 starter but if your cranking RPM is 250RPM or above but I am sure it's fine. 57psi of fuel pressure is ok.

Do the Purge solenoid check and check for vacuum leaks.