Hiccup at 5k RPM, loss of power at 6k plus, dealership CAT is fine
 

I have spent about 100 hours at this site reading every possible thread (yes, I used google:site). Could be CAT, but the code does not indicate CAT and the car runs fine except under “extreme loads”. Looked at SSV and VDI solenoid thread here. Before I go farther, I wanted feedback from this community.

Car History: 2004 MT with 77500 miles. VIN JM1FE17384010XXXX.

Had starting problems 3/2007 at 35k miles took to local dealer to restart, replaced coils, battery, wires.

Second starting problem 5/2007 local dealer kept car for a week to replace engine at 40k (but a trip to a different dealer 8/21/2011 dealer said “oasis” did not indicate an engine replacement. Do dealerships lie?)

I drive the car weekly, after 5 mins drive, I have opportunity to shift through 3rd gear at redline. Runs (ran) like a dream.

Problem started: I let the car sit from 7/15/2011 to 8/15/2011. Car actually started right away. Drove five minute to my usual 1st, 2nd, 3rd redline. In 2nd and 3rd, 5k huge hiccup, then loss of power at 6500 and above. Car would not start and I had to perform the owner no start procedure.

On 8/21/2011 took to a different dealer. Warrantee expires 8/31/2011. So I wanted codes, flash, TSB and possible warrantee work before it ended. New dealer wanted me to replace coils, plugs, wires, “Air Intake Controller” at about $2000 before they would do the decarbon TSB. They gave a report stating they ran F0008XDX EGI System Diagnostics 110 CMZ. The results were CODE P0037 (the O2 sensor went out about 150 miles after the alleged new engine was installed, I did not replace it on the counsel of the Mazda mechanic at local dealership that was” the best RX 8 guy in Florida”) P0661, P2259 diagnostics Intake runner malfunctions.

On 9/1/2011 I performed seafoam decarbon fair amount of smoke, not as big as some I have seen on this Site.

On 9/2/2011 upgraded to D585 coil, MSD wires, and new plugs. Cleaned MAS and K&N filter. Thanks to many of you that posted great DIY on the coil upgrade.

On 9/5/2011 ran can of seafoam through the gas tank.

My problem: about 80% of the time, I have a huge hiccup at exactly 5k, I am driving it like I stole it. From 1st to second I usually redline and by the time I hit second it is at 5200,then it starts to sputter at 6500. Same result from 2nd to 3rd. Happens hot or cold. I live in Florida at above 80 degrees, so cold is not that cold. The other 20% of the time the car runs great and at 5k the car “surges” with power up to 6500, then it sputters. If I drive it like an old lady, runs fine.

If I sit in neutral and rev to 6500 it is smooth as silk at 6500 it starts to sputter.


My Questions:

Anyone have a quick answer?
What happens in rotor motor at 5k and 6500?
Any suggestions???[/SIZE][/SIZE]

Hopefully someone with more knowledge would chime in.
Here are just my thoughts:

” the best RX 8 guy in Florida”....that's what they said...
Hum...seaform through gas tank would not do anything...
Compression test does not involve ignition, changing coil/wire/plugs are just BS from the dealership. Find another dealership if you can...or see if local member can help you out.
Sounds like clogged cat...time to upgrade. :)

my .02

APV opens at 6250.
P2 injectors at ~ 5500, but that varies a bit.

Had the exact same problem. At 6500 while acceleration WOT car would bog badly and flash CEL/Missfire. Turned out to be a bad connection on a spark plug wire. Since you have upgraded coils I would check wires first.

Happened before and after I replaced the coils, wires, and plugs. I have checked, rechecked, and checked them again.

Thanks for the input.

bump

check your fuel pump.

Soldier thanks for your help. I will do the hard turn fuel pump test. But my prob happens at exactly 5000 and 6500. When the car functions properly, there is marked increase in power a 5000 and when it fails there is a huge hiccup. What specifacally happens in a rotary at 5000 and 6500 that could be related.

I think it is in the air intake system.

see oltmann's post (#3)

Although the dealer says the cat is fine, you should visually inspect it. Dealerships have been known to make mistakes or lie...

like soldier said check the pump and cat, drive it hard and see if it glows red.. if im correct i think after 4000rpm, the other ports open up, so it could be an issue with that..compression check maybe?? or maybe your plugs have come loose or the wires ???

I always drive it hard. The CAT does not glow and there is not excessive heat from my console. It runs fine except for the occasional 5000 hiccup and the power loss at 6500. Wires check out fine.

bump

My notes (not sure where I orignally copied them from) say:

Above 3250 rpm, and when engine load is great enough, the Secondary Shutter Valve opens to permit airflow through secondary intake passages. The engine is now using two intake pipes and two intake ports per rotor. This reduces restriction and increases airflow and torque. The Secondary Shutter Valve is controlled by a vacuum control solenoid. Although the High Power engine is shown, the Secondary Shutter Valve works the same way in the Standard Power engine.

Above 5500 rpm, the Variable Fresh Air Duct opens to add another intake air path. When open, the VFAD doubles the amount of air available to the engine and reduces restriction. The VFAD is controlled by a vacuum actuator. It is not open at all times because noise is also increased.

Above 6250 rpm, the Auxiliary Port Valve opens the third or auxiliary intake port for additional airflow. All six ports are now used to increase horsepower and torque. The Auxiliary Port Valve is controlled by an electric motor through gears, a rack and linkage. The valve cycles each time the ignition is turned off to clear carbon. The Auxiliary Port Valve is used on the High Power engine only.

Thanks. Now for diagnostic purposes. Where would you start to figure out the hiccup at 5k and the loss of power at 6500? How would you fix it? The dealer gave me error codes of CODE P0037 (the O2 sensor went out about 150 miles after the alleged new engine was installed, I did not replace it, no probs for 30k) P0661, P2259 diagnostics Intake runner malfunctions.

bump

bump

7 days later. Drove it hard every day this week. The probs are diminishing, down to about 30% of the time for hiccup and the power loss at 6500 is down to half of what it was. Took it to a mech with code reader. It only showed a P0102. He cleared the code the car ran for 10 minutes with no CEL. I hung around his shop for about 30 mins, when i started the car to leave, CEL came on again.

Cleaned MAF sensor last week AFTER the probs. I will check the fuse and voltage later today.

Ever notice that posts asking for help with tech usually start by some RXtard flaming the post about doing more searching. A couple of people try to help. No real answers are posted. The thread is discovered years later in a search maybe related, maybe not. And they mostly trail into oblivion with no resolve.

Subsequently, since there is no resolve, there is a new thread posted and the whole cycle repeats. Sort of a circle, maybe more like a rotary.

Does anyone out there know how to diagnose, proscribe and prescribe?

i am having this exact same hiccup problem. and im not sure it is because of the Cat, i have an aftermarket mid pipe and it is still hiccuping at 5.5k and sputtering at 7.5k

Get a data logging system such as Access Port: Other system can be suggested by others here.

Data log your run and post up the data

The experts here are good at troubleshooting but doing so requires data.

Edit:

Nowhere did he mention cleaning the ESS...

Is your CEL on?
If yes, get the codes, and post them here.

The OP left on 9/20/2011 and hasn't been back since, so i doubt you're going to get any help from him.

He had the answer in his CEL codes, and ignored it.

BC.

I'm getting a P0661 code, secondary shutter valve low circuit.

There you go.
Do a search on the forum and look for the SSV cleaning DIY thread.
Follow the instructions in it to test the SSV and SSV control solenoid, and clean the SSV if it needs it.

If it was my car, first thing I would do would be to swap the SSV solenoid with one of the other solenoids, and see if the problem follows the solenoid, or stays with the SSV.

If it stays, then proceed to work on the SSV.
If it follows the solenoid, replace the solenoid.

BC.

Thanks man, gave me a good direction to start in. Is this SSV been te problem for other rx8 owners that have had this similar problem? I'd hate to take apart the car and then not be the fix. Time is hard to find to do work on my car so I wanna get in and out and fix the problem.

Updating my progress with my current problem mentioned above. I spent the entire weekend trying to solve my bogging issue and sputtering. I have replaced all 4 spark plugs, cleaned ignition coils and connectors. I took out the 3 valves behind the upper intake manifold, cleaned them out, the SSV one had a little bit of gunk in it, an upon reinstalling I switched it with another valve to check if it was bad. But i was still having the same problem even with all this done.

So I continued and decided to remove the SSV and pull it from te lower manifold. I cleaned the SSV u til it was shiny and new looking, it inside the housing and cleaned in there as well. (SSV was so gunked up i couldn't remove it from the housing, had to pry it out little by little).

To end story, I solved my sputtering issue at 8k rpms, but the car still feels like its bogging at 5k to 7k. And now when I hit 7k it feels like I'm injecting nitrous and starts to pull hard and solid. Which isn't bad but I would love my power band back how it was, smooth and consistant.

Ahh idk what else to try lol.