Having bit of a weird electrical problem, engine won't start.
 

Car was running great till last week after I haven't driven it for a couple of days. (Car was under a Covercraft Noah car cover and it's been raining for that couple of days that I wasn't driving it)

Started the car, won't crank, won't do anything. Headlights, horn works, but not interior lights, windows, radio or a/c. Thought it was the battery, had it checked and it was perfectly fine.

Having no time to deal with it I decided to call roadside service and had it towed to the nearest dealer. Dropped it off on a Friday and interestingly it started while at the dealer though it did "hesitated" for a bit (not sure what it meant but that's exactly how the tech put it)

It's been starting consistently since at the dealer throughout till Monday, they have no choice but to return the car to me as they "couldn't find anything wrong with it" well, couldn't replicate the symptoms. All is well yesterday as I drove it around and it started fine every time I tried it.

Then today, boom. Same thing again. Wouldn't start, wouldn't crank. Windows, AC don't work. Called roadside again and they sent someone out, the guy said to try and push start it first, and it did start, but even after it started none of the electronics aforementioned worked at the spot. It did work after like maybe 3-5 minutes. The car then went on the tow truck and I had to shut the car off. Tried to start it again and it wouldn't.

Anyone got any ideas?

Attachment 288741

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In the increased humidity and rain, your battery terminals are corroding under the terminal clamps, resulting in a weak connection. You can get some electrical current through, enough to power some of the low load stuff, but not enough to handle the high current draw of the starter. It sometimes does work, likely due to vibration and/or temperature change shifting the contact just enough to allow enough current.

Disconnect the battery negative than positive, clean both terminals and both clamps thoroughly (baking soda and water solution works, as does the soft-drink coke-a-cola). When you reconnect, positive then negative, and make sure they seat in an ideal spot by wiggling them gently as you tighten down.


Source: I've had that problem before on 2 different cars, one of which was my 8.

Thanks for the quick reply man.

The terminals look really clean though, the car has already left but i'll talk to the service advisor and tech and maybe tell them to try that. I just wish it isn't anything more I just paid like 600 for a SSV solenoid job... :wallbash: living without a garage and an rx8 sucks

If you didn't disconnect the clamps from the terminals, then you can't confirm it. Much of the corrosion will happen out of site between the two surfaces, basically turning the terminals (where the clamps are in contact with it) into the corrosion powder by-product. After 5 years on the original battery, my RX-8 battery terminals were noticeably thinner where the clamps were trying to seat. Thinner by several mm. I ended up replacing the battery due to that more than any other reason.

I took the battery out to an autoparts store to get the battery tested, they used like a cup thing to clean the terminals on the battery.
The clamps on the car were replaced like a year ago, but it might be that, I'll ask them to clean the clamps.
Could it be anything else other than a bad connection?

Hmm. The symptoms are all correct. I wonder if the failing connection is on the starter end?

Not getting any power at all to the starter, but having power elsewhere points to something wrong in the power/ground network between the battery and the starter. Or the battery is low, but you tested it.

In theory, such a problem might exist within the starter itself? How old is the starter?

I think it was replaced under warranty when I had my second engine put in so I think it's the upgraded started, lets say it's about 2-3 years old.

But then again, when the starter's not getting the juice, neither are the windows, interior lights, radio and door locks, headlights and horn does work for some reason though.

That should be confirmation that the starter relay is working, since the relay cuts power to non-necessary items while cranking. I don't know the exact list of what all shuts off, but that sounds right.

I'm sorry for asking this stupid question, but when you are saying the starter relay is working does that mean there's current going thru to the starter and that my starter's the thing that's bad?

When you turn the ignition key to "start", it closes a circuit, but you don't have the full juice of the battery running through your ignition cylinder. The circuit that is closed trips a relay (which is basically a switch that is flipped electrically rather than mechanically). That relay is what allows the full current from the battery to flow to the starter. It also shuts off a number of other electronic components at the same time while cranking.

They called me back with two parts needing to be replaced.
L110-67-730 (Relay FUSE AND RELAY, ENGINE COMPARTMENT, headlamp) & F151-67-099 (Fuse ENGINE COMPARTMENT, 120 amp)
I'd assume relays and fuses would be in the fuse box and they quoteed me like forty something for parts and an outrageous two hundred and something for labor. Am I getting ripped off?

It should take less than 5 minutes to replace both fuses, if they were the problem.

The headlamp relay and the main 120amp fuse don't make sense though. They don't fit the symptoms at all. If the 120amp fuse is gone, nothing at all would work, much less periodically getting it to start. And the headlamp relay isn't even involved in the starting circuit!

What do you think I should tell them?

I'd challenge them on it with those same points. You can get the wiring diagram from the site here where it can prove both points.

Wait sorry, that same part number applies on the other car L11067730 for the RX-8 is for "Relay ENGINE COMPARTMENT, ignition" and F15167099 is "Fuse ENGINE COMPARTMENT, 120 amp"

Hmm. That first relay is at least involved in the circuit. It might actually be the problem, though relays don't really fail intermittently, usually they just fail completely.

Up to you if you want to pay them to replace it. It may just be throwing parts at it, and it may not fix the problem.

They quoted me like $350 just for that and these parts costs like $25.
Say I'll give them $80 for a diagnose, If they are really asking me to pay $250 just for a 5 minutes job, I'd be really mad.

They are. It's in the box right behind the driver's side headlight:

Large black relay, bottom row of the upper section, immediately left of the pale blue one.

http://www.gerhardstein.net/rx8/foglights/fusebox.jpg

I was arguing with the rep asking if they are both in the fuse box and she just replied I don't have a tech to answer that for me right now, and that they'd have to take things apart to put the part in. I'm like wtf??? I was worried that the fuse would be somewhere next to the engine or something.

Where is the main fuse btw?
http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/su...40648_horn.gif

Main fuse is #1, which has dashed lines on the right half of the outline, which is in the upper left.

If that was bad though, you wouldn't have any electrical at all.

lol yea i see that but it doesn't match the picture you've shown, is it somewhere under the fuse box? and I guess you are right. I guess I'll have to go down there and talk to the tech myself.

Yes, it's partially under the fuse box. Still not difficult to replace.

There's gotta be a place where I can file a complaint to Mazda USA for this kinda shit...

Well. My service advisor called in sick today (lol) so I talked to the manager, I questioned him how replacing two fuses would cost two labor hours and he gave me some other bullshit but o well... we agreed to just settle with the diagnostics. Ordering parts today since the tech used "test parts" and verify the fuses are indeed the problem. Let's see how this goes.

RIWWP!! Think I might've found a guy with the same problem~! *Start from Post 13

Thing is I didn't try to jumpstart the car with crossed cables hm...