Hard Warm Start, Please Help
 

Hey guys,

I've had my 8 for 3.5 years. I've had a lot of problems with it... But the most recent problem is that it is having trouble starting after I run it for a while.

The other morning I ran it for 10min to warm it up, drove it 15min to the bank. Turned it off, then it took 5 minutes to get it started again. Cranking carefully to avoid a flooding issue I finally got it started. It has been doing this off and on for about a month now.

It is entirely stock...

All the recent work on it:
- new plugs (NGK's from Oreilly's Autoparts) (2k ago)
- new O2 sensors (15k ago)
- new coils (15k ago)
- new front main seal (15k ago)
- clutch replaced (and broken clutch pedal replaced) (4k ago)
- flywheel replaced (4k ago)
- All Full Circle work done at recommended milage points
- Seafoam about 10k ago, and again today

I took it to the shop yesterday, they think that the spark plugs weren't seated well, hasn't changed anything and is still having trouble in a warm start.

Engine was replaced when the car had 20k on it, and now the engine only has 60k on it. The car has 80k on it total...

Clean MAF sensor....

I'm running out of ideas. I can always start it eventually, but I have been through 2 batteries in the last year. I always follow the warm up procedures, never shut it down cold (I flooded it 3 years ago and don't want to deal with that again).

Any thoughts? Sorry if this has been addressed before... I couldn't find a thread that covers this. The temperature here has been between freezing and 40degC for the last month.

What year is your car? You may have the out dated starter

+1 Agree

+1 Again for this answer

Yes he dose have an '04. I know that starter was a big improvment when Mazda put mine in.

Does Mazda only have the newer specification starter for the 2004? I'm asking because I have similar symptoms where the car is a pain to start when warm. Until 2 days ago, it always started easily when cold. Starting two days ago, it started taking an extra second or two to start when cold. I am hoping it is nothing more than a bad starter that is on its way out; but I am fearful that I have compression loss (mine is a 2004 bought in October of 2004 and which the dealer invoice said it had the newer starter; but I assume nothing until I verify the part number of the actual starter). Sadly, not having access to a garage unless I drive half an hour to my sister's place, it's still a bit cold for me to crawl under the car.

Okay, here is an update...

It was in the body shop this last week because someone backed into me the other day (slight damage). And they called me to let me know that they couldn't get it started. It spent a week in the shop... they never got it started. So, I had it towed back to the stealership. They just called me, told me it was in fact flooded and went through the flooding procedure and got it running.

However, now that it is running they have a check engine light on and it is idling really rough. They are checking compression on it as I write this. I'm not holding my breath for a new engine, but think that it is going that way...

Thanks for the idea with the starter! That will be the next thing I get changed... then it is going up for sale.

Any thoughts?

Okay,
Just got back from the dealer. They ran a compression test on it 3 times. Once after they got it started after the flood, then again after they ran a de-carb on the engine, then once again after they talked to Mazda who suggested a different approach to running the compression test.

Here are the numbers:
3.2, 5.0

Waiting to hear back from Mazda Corporate now to see what happens. Luckily I have a great dealership to work with and excellent service writers. Keeping my fingers crossed that they find a solution.

A proper compression test will have THREE numbers per rotor and the RPMs , your numbers are not of any help.

Are those peak numbers for front and rear rotors, respectively? The dealer should have provided you with 7 numbers, three compression numbers for the front rotor and three compression numbers for the rear rotor, followed by the rpm at which the engine was taken when the numbers were taken. Also, they have to provide you with the unit of measurement. Those numbers could be pounds per square inch, kilopascals, bars, or even be calculated compression ratio (that is, 3.2:1 and 5.0:1) based on observed pressure; but without knowing the unit of measurement, the information given you isn't enough to help you.

Those are the peak numbers for the rotors... not respectively, just their way of saying that the compression sucked.
Sorry about not providing units, it was in kPa.

I had the compression test done about a year ago, all numbers where around 6.8kPa (for all 6, I don't have the cranking rpm) and I just gave them all the service records to prove I changed the oil.

I doubt that was in kPa, especially since Mazda's minimum tolerance reading is 680kPa
Attachment 152343

Plus, you need the peak reading of EACH face on both rotors.
Then you need the RPMs to "normalize" the values.
You can have a weak starter spinning then motor at only 170rpms and it'll give you a low compression reading.
Then when you normalize the reading for 250rpms, the compression reading could be good.
This is why people above commented on wanting to know the peak of each rotor and the RPMs... so we can do the math and verify.

Hard warm starting is usually an indication of low compression. It looks to my like you are about to join the club. The rebuilt engines, they are providing these days, are pretty good.
The updated starter was to improve cold weather starting.

Also a clogged cat or a fuel pump heating up and not working.

It could be the CAT.

If you have gone through two batteries in a year... sounds like an alternator problem.
A battery when off for a period of time will try to re-charge it's self to a small degree.

When cold it has just the minimum to start.

After you warm the car or drive it a little while the battery continues to drain.
The you try to restart the car and it doesn't work.

Ever seen a flashlight work like this?
Turn it on works for a minute. Try to turn it on again and it doesn't work.

Wait an hour or a day and turn it back on and it only works for 50 seconds this time.

You could have one problem or two with your car.
One low compression and get a new motor
Two get the rebuilt and stilll have problems due to alternatory and battery.

Update:

They called me last night, Mazda has given the go ahead for another engine. It's going to take a week. Compression levels were too low.

The rear was around (low reading) 3.2 kg*f*cm^-2
The front was around (low reading) 5 kg*f*cm^-2

Before have a de-carb done the readings (again, the low readings)

The rear was around (low reading) 5.5 kg*f*cm^-2
The front was around (low reading) 5.5 kg*f*cm^-2

The car still ran after the de-carb, but idled badly ($250 for anyone interested). They ran two seperate compression tests on it (one where they used the battery on the car, the other using an external battery system). I don't know what the rpm's at the time of the test were, but with those numbers it doesn't really matter if it was 10rpm or 7500rpm.

Still concerned that there might be a problem with the CAT (thanks Razz1... the alternator checked already). It was flooded by the body shop before I had it towed over to the dealership, so it could be damaged. But that might become evident when they put the new engine in.

But it was brought to my attention, and might be useful for everyone... that the 100k warranty doesn't cover the mileage on the engine itself, it is for the existing mileage on the car. So this new engine in my car will only have a warranty on it for the next 15k for my car.

One thing the service writer (who has been the best person I have dealt with in any dealership) said to me that stood out was, "Whatever you did to get this engine to 60k, keep doing it, and it should last a long time."