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Does Compression Test Need New Starter
Hey guys,
Looking for some help. 2004, 55,000km, got CEL and serious burning smell, along with loss of power. Didn't want to start next day (flooded it). Had it towed to the shop (Kramer Mazda in Calgary), they pull-started the car, and got the nasty smell again. From everything I've read, it sounds to me like I've got a toasted cat. The shop is telling me they need to do a compression test, and need a new starter to do it (still has original '04 starter). They're saying they can't run the test on the old starter. They told my wife the starter was fine, it just wasn't strong enough for the compression test. They then told me that the starter is dying, and it's what's causing the burning smell. He figures the loss of power means 85% that I need a new engine. I just don't like the tactics they seem to be trying to pull to get the new starter in. Questions: 1. Do I really need the new starter to do a compression test? 2. Is the new starter a good idea anyway? 3. Is he bullshitting me about the starter causing the smell - since I should push for a new cat as well if that's the case... |
Originally Posted by kinderhund
(Post 3851179)
Hey guys,
Looking for some help. 2004, 55,000km, got CEL and serious burning smell, along with loss of power. Didn't want to start next day (flooded it). Had it towed to the shop (Kramer Mazda in Calgary), they pull-started the car, and got the nasty smell again. From everything I've read, it sounds to me like I've got a toasted cat. The shop is telling me they need to do a compression test, and need a new starter to do it (still has original '04 starter). They're saying they can't run the test on the old starter. They told my wife the starter was fine, it just wasn't strong enough for the compression test. They then told me that the starter is dying, and it's what's causing the burning smell. He figures the loss of power means 85% that I need a new engine. I just don't like the tactics they seem to be trying to pull to get the new starter in. Questions: 1. Do I really need the new starter to do a compression test? 2. Is the new starter a good idea anyway? 3. Is he bullshitting me about the starter causing the smell - since I should push for a new cat as well if that's the case... Does the burning smell , smell more like high end electronics (Silicon) or Gas? If its Silicon hes right your starter is probably burning. but not the reason for your loss of power. |
Smells like something's on fire. Tough to say, since I don't make it a habit to burn high-end electronics, but it doesn't smell like burning gas, or burning oil.
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From experience, I can only comment on question #2. I got the upgraded starter and definitely noticed a difference. It sucks that it costs a decent amount, but I feel like it was worth it.
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Originally Posted by kinderhund
(Post 3851179)
1. Do I really need the new starter to do a compression test?
I've done compression tests with weak starters (it was around 160rpm). The software "normalizes", through mathematical equations, the results based on 250rpm to know if its within spec. The compression results will be very close between the original and upgraded starter. Not necessarily because of the starter (since you normalize for 250rpm anyway), but because every test will give you a different result (though not a major deviation).
Originally Posted by kinderhund
(Post 3851179)
2. Is the new starter a good idea anyway?
Originally Posted by kinderhund
(Post 3851179)
3. Is he bullshitting me about the starter causing the smell
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I got the same bullshit from the dealer - he told me they cant do the compression test if the RPMs are too low. Which doesnt really make sense, because the software (or the old-school graphs in the service manual) are there eactly for this reason, to normalize the values regardless of RPM.
I bought a slightly-used "new" (meanin the new serial number) starter from an online used part place (search for my old post about that) for $80 bucks, and it literally took 15 minutes to install. It's surprisingly easy. Is this right? No. It's complete bullshit. but is it simpler and cheaper than arguing with the dealer, yes. Just remember to be polite, even if you think they shitting with you. Because if you're not, they might find a way to void your warranty, and youre out of a new engine. I've seen it happen, they can be dicks....so just keep your head cool. And no, the starter is not causing the smell.... |
Update
I appreciate all the help and advice. Thought I'd provide an update:
1. Decided to go with a new starter. From everything I've seen and read, it's a good investment regardless of whether it's required right now or not. 2. With the new starter in, I failed the compression test. Well, actually, the car failed the compression test (although I'm sure I would have too). That means NEW ENGINE! 3. Dealer called today, new engine arrived at the shop, should be installed in the next couple of days. Next step after that is to test the cat and make sure it's ok too. I'll post again once I have the old girl back. It's -30C out today, but supposed to get above 0 by the end of the week, so good time to get back on the road. |
Originally Posted by kinderhund
(Post 3867523)
I appreciate all the help and advice. Thought I'd provide an update:
1. Decided to go with a new starter. From everything I've seen and read, it's a good investment regardless of whether it's required right now or not. 2. With the new starter in, I failed the compression test. Well, actually, the car failed the compression test (although I'm sure I would have too). That means NEW ENGINE! 3. Dealer called today, new engine arrived at the shop, should be installed in the next couple of days. Next step after that is to test the cat and make sure it's ok too. I'll post again once I have the old girl back. It's -30C out today, but supposed to get above 0 by the end of the week, so good time to get back on the road. LOL I never thought I'd see the post of someone looking forward to 0C... |
'Nother Update
OK, another update, for those interested.
- New engine installed, AND catalytic converter replaced Now they're saying the coils are toast, which doesn't surprise me, since I'm at 60K km (40K miles) on original 2004 coils, as well as original leading plugs (trailers were replaced with the hot start ones under recall). So here's my next question - where's a good place to get coils either in Canada, or online, so that I'm not paying $110/per like Mazda wants? From what I can see they're pretty easy to install, and Mazda wants $600 for the job (parts & labor). |
mazmart.com has coil packs for pretty cheap. Installing coil packs is pretty straight forward i would never pay 600 bucks for the dealer to change coil packs..
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Originally Posted by kinderhund
(Post 3871377)
OK, another update, for those interested.
- New engine installed, AND catalytic converter replaced Now they're saying the coils are toast, which doesn't surprise me, since I'm at 60K km (40K miles) on original 2004 coils, as well as original leading plugs (trailers were replaced with the hot start ones under recall). So here's my next question - where's a good place to get coils either in Canada, or online, so that I'm not paying $110/per like Mazda wants? From what I can see they're pretty easy to install, and Mazda wants $600 for the job (parts & labor). BHR has some pretty upgraded ignition coils... u mightz wanna check them out... |
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