Any lab worth their salt will run calibration sample tests of their own to verify their own machines. If they don't they will have a lot to lose in the way of business. So if your sending your samples to unreliable lab this would be a problem. It's same for blood work done at the hospitals calibrating and recalibrating is the nature of the beast for all labs. So if your sending fresh samples in you will only be paying for their own calibrating and verifying process.
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Well if I send in a clean sample and and the report verifies its clean then I would say the usual results are pretty accurate. We will see.
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blackstone has been around a while---they stand to lose A LOT if they dont do a good job.
OD |
Originally Posted by EricMeyer
(Post 3383043)
Just curious,
Has anyone sent their same sample to more than one oil analysis labs? It would be interesting to see the variation in testing methods. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a belief that the test results are rock solid and 100% accurate. Redundant testing would show this. Just curious. I run a predicitive maintenance program at work where we do a lot of oil sampling of machinery. In order to get a decently repeatable sample, you need to drain out a good amount of oil so you get a sample from the actual fluid circulating in the system and not just whats laying in the bottom of the oil resevoir. In i'd say in a majority of the DIY automotive samples, you see completely piss poor trends because of poor sample taking methods. I've seen many people do "long term oil tests" by just tapping off enough oil to fill the sample jar every couple thousand miles and start proclaiming to the world there sample results actually have and use... |
So how would you suggest taking a sample from an RX8? I take mine mid stream during the drain.
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i do the same after oil has warmed up good.
OD |
Yeah I always drain my oil hot/warm.
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Here is some food for thought:
ZDDP also alters bearing and journal surface characteristics to prevent metal to metal contact. Under extereme conditions like a high perfromance motor, ZDDP reduces the tendancy of parts to scuff or gall under heavy loads. From this website: http://www.eastwood.com/underhood-en...e-4-fl-oz.html So do Zinc or Moly go directly to this issue (either buying oil that hasn't had it reduced or an additive)? Ie, are our bearings bearing the brunt of protecting the cats? Also, lubricant experts: would i learn anything by having Blackstone run MMO? Maybe compared to FP Plus and Amsoil Saber Pro. Anyone want to go in 1/3 on a comparo? |
Originally Posted by r0tor
(Post 3383316)
Theres more to it then that...
I run a predicitive maintenance program at work where we do a lot of oil sampling of machinery. In order to get a decently repeatable sample, you need to drain out a good amount of oil so you get a sample from the actual fluid circulating in the system and not just whats laying in the bottom of the oil resevoir. In i'd say in a majority of the DIY automotive samples, you see completely piss poor trends because of poor sample taking methods. I've seen many people do "long term oil tests" by just tapping off enough oil to fill the sample jar every couple thousand miles and start proclaiming to the world there sample results actually have and use... I guess, before taking the sample, in addition to getting your oil nice & hot, one should find a nice slalom somewhere. :) |
OK, to put things into more perspective when I worked at a pretty well known company's oil R&D labs for engine oils they had a testing program for employees cars where they would....
- drain the oil - run a flushing oil through the system (typically you only drain about 80% of the oil on most cars and then you still want to clean out any sludge in the valve train and oil passeges) - drain it again - drop the oil pan and clean out any sludge - fill with the new test oil ... depending on the routine, a sampling port might also be installed on an oil cooler line if your car had one ...and then have a sample size of 20-50 cars... |
scientific methods are a lot of work:)
After a lot of thought from my old tired brain--i have come to realize that why the rotary shears oil so much is because of the rotor bearing loads on the e shaft and the rotor gear load on the stationary gears? An arguement for a oil with pressure additives like transmission oils maybe could be made? OD |
Originally Posted by olddragger
(Post 3385941)
scientific methods are a lot of work:)
After a lot of thought from my old tired brain--i have come to realize that why the rotary shears oil so much is because of the rotor bearing loads on the e shaft and the rotor gear load on the stationary gears? An arguement for a oil with pressure additives like transmission oils maybe could be made? |
Originally Posted by olddragger
(Post 3385941)
scientific methods are a lot of work:)
After a lot of thought from my old tired brain--i have come to realize that why the rotary shears oil so much is because of the rotor bearing loads on the e shaft and the rotor gear load on the stationary gears? An arguement for a oil with pressure additives like transmission oils maybe could be made? OD |
Originally Posted by wankelbolt
(Post 3385961)
But why so much worry over the shearing? Rotor bearing failure is basically never the failure mode of a rotary engine. Most of the time the e-shaft can be reused during a rebuild. Stationary gear failure is sometimes the failure mode, but not from lubrication failures, usually from becoming not stationary.
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/5w30-oil-dont-cut-engine-bearing-pics-58k-s1-rx-8-england-183355/ While it's true that the prevailing wisdom, that Renesis failures are mostly due to carbon build up and/or lack of lubrication of the seals, still holds (at least best I can tell, LOL), clearly there is something going on with Renesis bearing wear that has not been present in older rotaries. So, assuming premixing and proper maintenance solves the seal lubrication & carbon issues, we'd like to know that the bearings will not wear out prematurely. |
Originally Posted by GeorgeH
(Post 3386864)
In case you missed it:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=183355 While it's true that the prevailing wisdom, that Renesis failures are mostly due to carbon build up and/or lack of lubrication of the seals, still holds (at least best I can tell, LOL), clearly there is something going on with Renesis bearing wear that has not been present in older rotaries. So, assuming premixing and proper maintenance solves the seal lubrication & carbon issues, we'd like to know that the bearings will not wear out prematurely. Thanks, saved me from a much longer and less concise post. |
Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8
(Post 3386868)
Thanks, saved me from a much longer and less concise post.
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you know i am getting a lot more oil in my catch can now that my temps are up.
hmmmmmm. OD |
Could it also have to do with more oil pressure? Right now when I pull the intake hose off, I do not see any residue in there. That was making me think i wouldn't benefit from a catch can. Am I wrong? Do you think when I do the Oil Pressure Mod i will get more oil in the intake?
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Hmmmmmm.... I will be installing my OP kit and a catch can on the same day so we will see.
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wait......so should i warm up the car, or just drive it?
confused on that part. and a small why wouldn't hurt too :P right now i'm thinking it gets gas in the oil? |
Originally Posted by always.anthony
(Post 3391270)
wait......so should i warm up the car, or just drive it?
confused on that part. and a small why wouldn't hurt too :P right now i'm thinking it gets gas in the oil? Now I am back to letting it warm up completely before I go anywhere so we will see in my next UOA. |
Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8
(Post 3391395)
Well the common belief is that idling your car to full warm before driving away increases fuel content in the oil and dilutes it. But I stopped doing that during my last OCI and my fuel content increased in the fuel so..................
Now I am back to letting it warm up completely before I go anywhere so we will see in my next UOA. thanks! |
no way does the bypass have any affect on increased oil catch can output. I think what is happening is because i am getting my oil temp hotter the engine is boiling off all the crap.
i had a lot of crap! Less being produced right now. would you believe over a pint of muddy.creamy looking crap came out? OD |
and that was after you cleaned out the pan?
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Originally Posted by olddragger
(Post 3391735)
no way does the bypass have any affect on increased oil catch can output. I think what is happening is because i am getting my oil temp hotter the engine is boiling off all the crap.
i had a lot of crap! Less being produced right now. would you believe over a pint of muddy.creamy looking crap came out? OD |
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