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S2 010 engine on S1
Hi guys, my 8 does not need a rebuild anytime soon. It has been a year since I got my engine rebuilt but the engine has 150k miles and I was wondering if it would be ok to rebuild the same engine with that many miles or buy a low mileage engine and then rebuild it? would that make a difference? I found a low mileage engine from a 010 with 19xxx miles for $2k
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As long as you keep replacing parts that are worn out of spec, you can keep rebuilding the same engine. There are only 8 major pieces of the engine though, so after a rebuild or two, chances are there won't be any parts left from the original engine.
And no, you can't use a Series2 engine in a Series1. https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-f...4/#post4533721 Swapping between engines: Of the 3 designs (4-port Series1, 6-port Series1, 6-port Series2), each design is directly swappable into RX-8s that had that same design. So you can use a 6-port from a 2008 Automatic directly in a 2004 6-speed manual with zero modifications, and vise versa. The Series1 and Series2 engines can be physically installed in each other's vehicles, however the OMP and electronics differences are considerable. Swapping between Series1 and Series2 will involve replacing every electronics module in the car, even the ones not engine related. The 4-port and 6-port can likewise be physically installed in each other's vehicles, but there are significant electronic differences that will require replacement or re-coding of at least the ECU, likely additional components. If the 4-port to 6-port swap also includes a change of transmissions then there are additional hardware components that need to be converted as well. Swapping between any of the different engine designs becomes a long and costly process. |
Originally Posted by RIWWP
(Post 4566514)
As long as you keep replacing parts that are worn out of spec, you can keep rebuilding the same engine. There are only 8 major pieces of the engine though, so after a rebuild or two, chances are there won't be any parts left from the original engine.
And no, you can't use a Series2 engine in a Series1. https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-f...4/#post4533721 Thanks for the quick response. How can I know which engine design I have? Mine is an 04 and what do you mean by they won't be any parts left from the original engine? This is out of the question but does an rx8 have 6 injectors? so that equals to 6 ports? |
Click the link, it goes to a more expanded post than the section I quoted. It gives the differences between the engines, how to tell which one you have, and which ones were used in what years of RX-8s.
What I mean by " there won't be any parts left from the original engine" is if you rebuild once and replace the irons and housings, then rebuild again and replace the rotors and e-shaft, then you have replaced all the parts from the original engine. The small bits need to get replaced every time, but with only 8 major parts in the engine (3 irons, 2 housings, 2 rotors, and the e-shaft), it doesn't take very many rebuilds before you will have probably replaced everything. |
Originally Posted by RIWWP
(Post 4566516)
Click the link, it goes to a more expanded post than the section I quoted. It gives the differences between the engines, how to tell which one you have, and which ones were used in what years of RX-8s.
What I mean by " there won't be any parts left from the original engine" is if you rebuild once and replace the irons and housings, then rebuild again and replace the rotors and e-shaft, then you have replaced all the parts from the original engine. The small bits need to get replaced every time, but with only 8 major parts in the engine (3 irons, 2 housings, 2 rotors, and the e-shaft), it doesn't take very many rebuilds before you will have probably replaced everything. Thanks so a 6 port uses 6 injectors? and a 4 port 4? |
They both use 6 fuel injectors. "#-port" is literal. The 6-port has 2 intake ports and 1 exhaust port per rotor (6 total ports), the 4-port has 1 intake port and 1 exhaust port per rotor (4 total ports)
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Originally Posted by RIWWP
(Post 4566526)
They both use 6 fuel injectors. "#-port" is literal. The 6-port has 2 intake ports and 1 exhaust port per rotor (6 total ports), the 4-port has 1 intake port and 1 exhaust port per rotor (4 total ports)
Thanks. Then I don't understand why Cam from Pettit Racing said that I should buy a low mileage engine and let them rebuild it. He once said that I had fuel in the oil which I didn't. Took it to 6 shops and he was the only one who said that I did. |
Pettit DOES do fantastic engine builds. Top quality stuff. I'm guessing he told you to get a low mileage engine to rebuild because you told him what you told us: "I have 150,000 miles on the engine". If it's been rebuilt recently, then you don't have that on the engine any more, unless it was a crap rebuild without anything major replaced. If that rebuild had new housings, re-lapped and nitrided irons, and new seals, then it isn't a high mileage engine any more.
We can give you a better recommendation if you give us details on what exactly you had done during the rebuild. And how did they all test the oil for fuel? That typically needs an oil lab analysis, and I can't imagine that any of the shops, or Pettit, took an oil sample and had it sent off to test, so I wouldn't count on anything any of them said in regard to that. |
Originally Posted by RIWWP
(Post 4566526)
They both use 6 fuel injectors. "#-port" is literal. The 6-port has 2 intake ports and 1 exhaust port per rotor (6 total ports), the 4-port has 1 intake port and 1 exhaust port per rotor (4 total ports)
The reference to 4 port is 4 intake ports and 6 port is 6 intake ports. 4 port : 1 on rear iron, 2 on middle iron, 1 on front iron 6 port: 2 on rear iron, 2 on middle iron, 2 on front iron |
Hmm, I can't believe I've had that wrong all this time...
Ah well. OP, listen to him. |
Originally Posted by RIWWP
(Post 4566558)
Pettit DOES do fantastic engine builds. Top quality stuff. I'm guessing he told you to get a low mileage engine to rebuild because you told him what you told us: "I have 150,000 miles on the engine". If it's been rebuilt recently, then you don't have that on the engine any more, unless it was a crap rebuild without anything major replaced. If that rebuild had new housings, re-lapped and nitrided irons, and new seals, then it isn't a high mileage engine any more.
We can give you a better recommendation if you give us details on what exactly you had done during the rebuild. And how did they all test the oil for fuel? That typically needs an oil lab analysis, and I can't imagine that any of the shops, or Pettit, took an oil sample and had it sent off to test, so I wouldn't count on anything any of them said in regard to that. It just had all the seals, springs, etc. replaced. The two rotors were good to re-use them. He machined one housing and he got the other housing from another car that was in good condition. I think that's about it. And of course, the water pump, radiator, etc. were replaced at that time. Mazda told me that it will cost me about $5k for a brand new engine + re-using some other parts like the alternator and whatnot. New housings, rotors, etc. Is it $5k up front or was that just an estimate? Should I worry about getting new housings and rotors soon? Oh and no he didn't test it. He just felt it and probably smelled it |
Originally Posted by RIWWP
(Post 4566560)
Hmm, I can't believe I've had that wrong all this time...
Ah well. OP, listen to him. |
Originally Posted by god5peed
(Post 4566562)
It just had all the seals, springs, etc. replaced. The two rotors were good to re-use them. He machined one housing and he got the other housing from another car that was in good condition. I think that's about it. And of course, the water pump, radiator, etc. were replaced at that time. Mazda told me that it will cost me about $5k for a brand new engine + re-using some other parts like the alternator and whatnot. New housings, rotors, etc. Is it $5k up front or was that just an estimate? Should I worry about getting new housings and rotors soon? Oh and no he didn't test it. He just felt it and probably smelled it
Mazda's engine quote isn't something to pay attention to. Dealer list price is $3,300 or so, and they will mark that up quite a bit, though how much varies from dealer to dealer. And yes, that price is just for the block, all the accessories would be transfered. The cheapest reman option will usually be from Mazmart at $3,800, though it requires another $1,000 up front until you can send them your current engine (at which point the $1,000 is refunded) Generally the cheapest rebuild option that is worth spending money on is RotaryResurrection. Other rebuilders can do it cheaper, but usually only by cutting corners, and plenty of rebuilders will cut corners AND charge you more. Pettit, Rotary Resurrection, Mazmart, and BHR are the short list of rebuilders that consistently get good feedback.
Originally Posted by bse50
(Post 4566590)
That's the problem when you spend too much time reading and too little tearing things apart :wiggle:
My piston engines are a different story.... :lol: |
Originally Posted by RIWWP
(Post 4566644)
Ok, yeah, don't bother rebuilding your engine. New housings are pretty much mandatory over 100k. I'm kinda bothered by the fact that you had a housing "machined", considering it has a multi-layered chrome coating for a reason, and you can't really re-chrome them properly.
Mazda's engine quote isn't something to pay attention to. Dealer list price is $3,300 or so, and they will mark that up quite a bit, though how much varies from dealer to dealer. And yes, that price is just for the block, all the accessories would be transfered. The cheapest reman option will usually be from Mazmart at $3,800, though it requires another $1,000 up front until you can send them your current engine (at which point the $1,000 is refunded) Generally the cheapest rebuild option that is worth spending money on is RotaryResurrection. Other rebuilders can do it cheaper, but usually only by cutting corners, and plenty of rebuilders will cut corners AND charge you more. Pettit, Rotary Resurrection, Mazmart, and BHR are the short list of rebuilders that consistently get good feedback. My rotary never gave me a reason to tear it apart. My piston engines are a different story.... :lol: Don't pay attention to what I said about having one housing machined I could be wrong. Anyways I'm keeping my car till I die so might as well just buy everything new. Is there like a website where I can get all the new pars? atkinsrotary.com is one but I can't find the 3 irons and the eshaft |
I'd honestly still go through Mazmart if you are looking to buy individual parts at a time. All the parts are OEM Mazda, and Mazmart is nearly always unbeatable when it comes to getting new OEM parts that aren't commonly ordered.
That being said, buying all the parts individually will be more than just buying a complete reman from Mazmart. |
Originally Posted by RIWWP
(Post 4566727)
I'd honestly still go through Mazmart if you are looking to buy individual parts at a time. All the parts are OEM Mazda, and Mazmart is nearly always unbeatable when it comes to getting new OEM parts that aren't commonly ordered.
That being said, buying all the parts individually will be more than just buying a complete reman from Mazmart. I looked on here and it says 04-05 AT but mine is manual? Also does it already have a new rebuild kit? Like the apex seals and all that stuff? |
They don't list everything on their website. Send Paul an email (paul@mazmart.com) a PM ("mazmart" username) or give them a call.
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Or here is parts individually, with the complete engines buried in the list. I don't know yet know why their website is split like that
http://www.partswebsite.com/mazmart/...20052&fl_id=43 Engine, Short engine RX-8, Manual Trans - Rotary ENGINE »Engine Mazda › RX-8 › 2004-2007 List Price : $3,335.00 Your Price : $3,225.00 Core Price: $1,000.00 |
Originally Posted by RIWWP
(Post 4566738)
Or here is parts individually, with the complete engines buried in the list. I don't know yet know why their website is split like that
http://www.partswebsite.com/mazmart/...20052&fl_id=43 That looks like Mazda's price though, I think it goes up to $3,800 if you have them add the various Remedy upgrades. Forgot to put the website sorry. $4100 includes new rotors, rotor housings, seals, eccentric shaft pulley, and oil pan? That's darn cheap if you ask me. It is better to buy their reman engine than buying all the parts individually. I'm going to give them a call today MAZMART - Serving The Mazda Community Since 1980. RX8 Engine Kit (04-05 AT) |
You are linking their 4-port engine listing, which the 4-port is more expensive than the 6-port. I'm pretty sure the 6-port is lower than what you linked.
For example in the link I posted: Engine, Short engine RX-8, Auto Trans - Rotary ENGINE »Engine Mazda › RX-8 › 2004-2005 List Price : $5,736.12 Your Price : $5,546.92 Engine, Short engine Core Item RX-8, Manual Trans - Rotary ENGINE »Engine Mazda › RX-8 › 2004-2007 List Price : $3,335.00 Your Price : $3,225.00 Core Price: $1,000.00 But yeah, contact them. |
Originally Posted by RIWWP
(Post 4566757)
You are linking their 4-port engine listing, which the 4-port is more expensive than the 6-port. I'm pretty sure the 6-port is lower than what you linked.
For example in the link I posted: Which appears to be Mazda's list prices. But yeah, contact them. So I was quoted $5k out the door if I take my car to them. It is a fair price isn't it? Now I would need a transporter. Any recommendations? Not a company that will steal your car. Oh and what about the tranny? How long will it hold? Will I need a new one? I hope not |
Yes, that is a very fair price.
No idea on shipping companies though. Driving it up, taking a plane, train, or bus back, then reversing that would probably be the options I'd look through. Likely cheaper than shipping the car. Southwest has flights for $90 each way Amtrak is double, looks like nothing is even remotely direct Greyhound is a bit better than Amtrak, but not much. I'd bet that you wouldn't find a shipping company that could beat a $90 plane ticket + ~$90-$120 in gas, one way. Your first post says that you don't need a rebuild any time soon, so why are you trying to get this done again? |
Originally Posted by RIWWP
(Post 4566924)
Yes, that is a very fair price.
No idea on shipping companies though. Driving it up, taking a plane, train, or bus back, then reversing that would probably be the options I'd look through. Likely cheaper than shipping the car. Southwest has flights for $90 each way Amtrak is double, looks like nothing is even remotely direct Greyhound is a bit better than Amtrak, but not much. I'd bet that you wouldn't find a shipping company that could beat a $90 plane ticket + ~$90-$120 in gas, one way. Your first post says that you don't need a rebuild any time soon, so why are you trying to get this done again? those are probably the best options. They are 10h away from me and I hate long trips but it is what it is. Well, it has been over a year since the rebuild and I think I already have low compression. Sometimes it starts right up on warm start and some days it takes its time, I'd say about 3-4s after the normal time to start the car. Using the upgraded starter. I could still drive it with no problem but I want to get it over with. Thinking about doing it on July-Aug. What do you think about the tranny? I don't have any problems with it but you know, it has over 150k.. |
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