Optimal RPM's for shifting into first
 

I'm just got my RX-8 last week, and at about the same time learned how to drive stick. Over the last week I have just about mastered the art of shifting but I'm a little concerned about my RPM's while shifting into first.

The guy who taught me stick said he usually gets into first between 1,000 and 1,500. I've tried to mimic his suggestion in the 8, but I find it to be a little rough. When I release the clutch closer to 2,000 RPM's the car feels much smoother. I realize that he drives a completely different car, and that could account for the difference.

Ultimately, I would just like to know what is a good RPM so that I can spare my clutch and avoid stalling at lights. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Try putting it into first with no throttle, then enganging the clutch slowly until the car rolls.. then apply throttle.. You wouldn't want to do this when you're first at a light on a wide open road.. unless you LIKE having people honk at you.. but it will give you a good idea of where your clutch engages.. then you can add however much throttle you want to get you off the line.

Practice in a parking lot :D

Typically, anything that gets you moving smoothly, without slipping your clutch much is good.. I think.

First of all, I don't believe it is an RPM issue, but a speed issue. For instance:
The manual says you can do damage if you shift into first at greater than 20mph.

In my experience I don't downshift to first very often. You can usually manage just fine in second, even in parking lots. Another thing to note is that first is VERY torquey so it can be a little jerky unless you modulate the clutch some.

I guess the times I DO downshift into first is when I have to do one of those "almost stop" slowdowns. I believe that I'm usually something like maybe 6-7 or less when I do go into first.

Best thing is just practice.

I don't think he's talking/asking about downshifting into 1st. I think he's talking about engaging first from a stop. I doubt anyone new to driving a manual is attempting to downshift into 1st while moving more than 3mph. At least I hope not. (Pkskull77, correct me if I'm wrong.)

I disagree with guy321's advice, unless he meant to do this just once or twice to get a feel for the clutch. The more time you spend with the clutch somewhere between fully engaged and fully dis-engaged, the faster you wear out your clutch.

You need to learn the simultaneous motions of left foot moving up while right foot is moving down. This just takes practice. Once you get a little feel for it you wont' need to watch the tach, you'll do it by ear and feel.

Your friend was very probably driving a vehicle with more low end torque than the RX-8. This makes it easier to engage 1st from a stop at lower revs without stalling out the engine. If reving to 2000 makes it easier for you to get rolling smoothly, fine. You'll develop a reflex feel for it before too long anyway. Relax and drive. :)

get teh revs up to 2k and slowly release the clutch. this car will move at about 1k or so and 5-7 mph but ti doesnt like to start moving at that low an rpm

Doh, I see, starting off in first... :)

I think for me somewhere between 1.5K & 2K, and slowly release the clutch as zoom44 said. Once you feel it catching (you'll start rolling forward), you can release slightly faster and add a little more gas. Keep your pedals moving smoothly or the car will jerk.

It DOES help to get a feel for where the clutch engages, because the travel seems (to me) slightly longer than my other car.

I think the best advice is practice. You'll get smoother with time. There's a bit to think about and do at the same time. Incidentally, when I first got my 8, I think I was overreving it when I had a CD playing because it was so smooth. I smelt clutch a few times. :o

Digression: Did you know that AI experts have determined that the part of our brain that tries to explain these sorts of things, and the part of our brain that actually DOES these sorts of things, is different? This means that we often don't explain these sorts of things the way we actually do them. (Oh great!!!!)

once you drive the car enough, you can have the clutch entirely out by 1300 without bogging. this car doesnt have much torque and idles much higher than other cars, so you'll need almost 2000 to start learning

What about shifting @ 7000....its not overly smooth but much more fun :D

I agree with guy321.. as you said.. from stop slowly engage clutch and apply gas..

get good at that.. once you do that. you can find the sweet spot where you know when it engages to make a clean shift while applying gas then engaging the clutch.. Not sure if it makes sence.. but Whatever ya do to get rolling is ok by me.. LOL.. have fun.

And what about the part of our brain that types the stuff that the part of our brain thinks it's doing that some other part of our brain is reallydoing?

What about that? Huh? Bet they didn't think of that, and neither can I!

Thanks
 

Thanks for your advice. I have gotten much better with practice, and boy have I got a ton of practice on the Garden State Parkway while driving to work. Its funny, sometimes I can get her rolling at around a 1,000, and other times not unless I am near 2,000. The bottom line is making it natural, once I stopped thinking about it, and just started doing it, the process got a lot easier. Ultimately I just wanted to make sure that I was learning correctly, so I would not be stuck doing it wrong. Once again thanky you very much.

lol Yeah, I bet they're STILL trying to figure that one out!

There are gear-shifting lessons in the manual?
You mean TFM that we're all supposed to R?

Pkskull77,
Glad it's starting to work. Leave the radio off for a while, seriously. As Ninja implied, hearing the engine change speeds in tempo with your feet will physically engage that part of your motor-nervous system that all this verbiage can't reach. Ever try to talk someone into how to ride a bicycle? (My dad did. I still fall over. :p)

There are only two words that really help or matter: zoom and ZOOM!

WOWWWWWWWW
AMAZING!!!

Now, now. Be nice!

Manual
 

I did look for gear shifting in the manual and all I came across was the optimal speeds for each gear. When I get home I will take a closer look, and hopefully that will shed some more light on the subject.

The shiting speeds in the manual are good for daily driving. When you shift really depends on how aggressive you want to be at that given moment in time. Many times for me that means shifting at 9k+ and d.s. anytime i hit 6k. SO FUN!!!

REGARDING shifting back into first from second. I find I often do this in low speed traffic about 6-8 MPH, to avoid being in the bottom of 2nd when traffic picks up. The tranny doesn't seem to mind at all, when I feather the clutch. Other than clutch wear (hey I live in Manhattan- I realize I'm getting a clutch sooner than most) is this bad for the tranny?

Nah, I don't think you're putting undo stress on the tranny. Just, as you noted, a little bit of extra use of the clutch. Which we all do sometimes. I wouldn't sweat the usage you describe.

I've looked at those shift speeds... They seemed AWEFUL lame to me. I don't know what RPM you'd be at when making the shifts but I think you'll find that those shift points might be good for gas. They certainly will be way low what you'll be shifting at when you're in a mood to drive in a "spirited" fashion... :)

For instance, if I remember right it has you going into 6th at 47 or 48... That's just plain nuts, I won't even go into 6th if I'm slower than 62-63mph. At too low an RPM, the engine just doesn't have the "juice" it has at higher RPM. :)

Based on the speeds for shift points in the manual, I think most of us CAN get the estimated EPA MPG ratings...

I unfortunately, don't drive like MAZDA suggests, and apparently that's why my avg mpg is about 11. It costs more for me to run this as a daily driver, but it sure is a hell of alot more FUN! :D

1 - dont "feather" your clutch into first. Learn how to d/s into first gear properly... using a combination of heal 2 toe and double clutch. If you dont know how to do that (which is amazing seeing i thought you already MASTERED THE ART OF SHIFTING) you can also just put it in neutral, and then shift into first and go.

2 - The shifting speeds just mentioend are not right. Last I checked you shift into 6th around 72. Which is just fine for normal daily driving. Actually, thats a little higher than i would have expected.

3 - Do not tell me you are only getting 11mpg. Go away with your exagerations (sp?).

I need to unsuscribe from this list before my head explodes!!!

Heck, just keep experimenting until it works for you. Sometimes I skip several gears and just cruise along and sometimes (in local traffic, i.e., no highway) I never leave 2nd, just treat it as an automatic (as long as no complete stop is needed), and other times I maintain 5.5k or above rpms the whole trip. It is all about what you want. Convenience of not shifting, then 2nd is very versatile around town. Best mpg, then keep the rpms below 2.5k, but for clutch life, don't shift per the manual, skip gears instead. For more spirited driving, (my favorite, and my mpg hovers between 15-18 (after the m-flash, prior it was 12-15)) keep the rpms high and enjoy!

Thanks for the info. Just got my RX-8 and the manual reccomendations just do not
FEEL right. After reading these posts- no guilt by not following mfg recs. Zoom Zoom Zoom