9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I was looking at different specs of different oils and I thought it would be a good idea to have a thread containing all the Product Data Sheets of popular oil used in our engines. If you have any comments on format or adding key points please chime in.

Also guys, I really don't want opinions on a specific oil without data to back up your opinion or how you formed your opinion. I don't want posts about how you use it because your grandpa used it in his tractor for 50 years and it worked fine. If you are knowledgeable and want to point out what are the main technical aspects (Viscosity index, flash point, etc.) of oil we should be looking at I would appreciate it. But please no thread jacking or going off on tangents that our beyond the topic of this thread. I will update the first post.

Thanks.

Mobil1:

0W-20
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...el_Economy.asp
0W-30
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...el_Economy.asp
0W-40
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...il_1_0W-40.asp
5W-20
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...il_1_5W-20.asp
5W-30
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...bil1_5W-30.asp
10W-30
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...l_1_10W-30.asp
15W-50
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...il1_15W-50.asp

Mobil1 Racing
0W-20 & 0W-30
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...acing_Oils.asp

Royal Purple
0W-40, 5W-20, 5W-30, 5W-40, 10W-30, 10W-40, 15W-40, and 20W-50
http://www.royalpurple.com/prod-pdfs/motor-oil-ps.pdf

Amsoil
0W-20
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/asm.aspx
0W-30 Signature Series
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/sso.aspx
5W-30
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/asl.aspx
10W-30
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atm.aspx
5W-20 XL
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/xlm.aspx
5W-30 XL
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/xlf.aspx
10W-30 XL
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/xlt.aspx
10W-40 XLO
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/xlo.aspx
5W-40 Euro
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/afl.aspx
10W-40 Premium
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/amo.aspx
20W-50 Premium
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/aro.aspx

Eneos
0W-20
http://www.eneos.us/product/1
0W-50
http://www.eneos.us/product/2
5W-20
http://www.eneos.us/product/3
5W-30
http://www.eneos.us/product/4
5W-40
http://www.eneos.us/product/5

Redline
0W-20, 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-20, 5W-30, 5W-40, 10W-30, 10W-40, 15W-40, 15W-50, and 20W-50.
http://www.redlineoil.com/content/fi...uct%20Data.pdf

Castrol Syntec:
0W-20, 0W-30, 5W-20, 5W-30, 5W-40, 5W-50. 10W-30, 10W-40, and 20W-50
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...syntec_usa.pdf

Schaeffer's
5W-30 Supreme 9000
http://www.schaefferoil.com/datapdf/9003.pdf
5W-40 Supreme 9000
http://www.schaefferoil.com/datapdf/9000.pdf
5W-50 Supreme 9000 Racing Formula
http://www.schaefferoil.com/datapdf/9001.pdf

Valvoline
Valvoline® Specialty Racing Oil ("Not Street Legal")
5W-30, 10W-30, 20W-50
http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/Special...acing_Oils.pdf
VR1 Racing Oil (VR1)
10W-30, 20W-50
http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/VR-1_Racing_Motor_Oil.pdf

Pennzoil Platinum
0W-20, 0W-30 (Euro), 5W-20, 5W-30, 5W-30 (Ultra), 5W-30 (Ultra Diesel)5W-40(Euro), 5W-50, 10W-30, 15W-50
http://pennzoil.com/documents/Platin...otor%20Oil.pdf

Castrol GTX:
5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30, 10W-40, and 20W-50
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp...sd_gtx_usa.pdf

Shell Rotella:
5W-40
http://www-static.shell.com/static/c...cants/1-52.pdf

Flashwing

Here's the product information for Eneos products:

0w-20
5w-20
5w-30
5w-40
0w-50

Redline's Product Data:
http://www.redlineoil.com/content/fi...uct%20Data.pdf

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Thanks, Updated. Flash, what are your thoughts on the Flash point? I read some things that say the flash point of a fully synthetic should be above 400 degree F but look at the Flash Point for the Mobil1 0W-40 and Eneos 0W-50.

FYI, I found this article to be informative:

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

Flashwing

The flashpoint for the Eneos is in Celcuis, 232 degrees celcius is 446 degrees fahrenheit.

The flash point simply denotes at what temperature the oil turns to vapor and the vapor can burn. The oil will lose it's ability to provide lubrication and protection well before that.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Ah hah, it is in Celcius for those two. Sorry I'm burnt out.

ASH8

Mate, while I really appreciate your idea and effort..

I somehow think that you can present a lot of scientific information, viscosities, cranking and pumping viscosities, flash point's, pour points, zinc, calcium, phosphorous data/levels, Ash, etc....too much maybe??

But in the end..... IMO many will just be confused, we are not Oil Scientists nor wear Lab Coats.

All it is is engine OIL... Oils today past virtually all engineering standards or manufacturers standards for most countries or car manufacturers.

In the end, I have always thought to use an Oil that meets your local conditions...climate wise and to a lesser extent a vehicle's use...perhaps I am Totally Wrong??

But thanks, It may be very interesting to hear what others have to say, unfortunately there may be many questions asked that don't necessarily get the correct answer(s)...and then what is that person going to do about it?...

Take a look at the "Cumulative Synthetic Oil Discussion..." thread..

Perhaps all this data could be collated into an easy referenced Matrix??

Anyone?

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

You are probably right but I was hoping you could put all the data into a spreadsheet.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

dang, how long it took u for all those links ?

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Not too long. How about I just post the main key data for each oil (viscosity @100, Viscosity index, por point)?

ASH8

Yeah, it would be a lot of work...

I really like the comment recently posted by that "Oil Scientist" on I think the BMW Forum posted on here a few days back...

It does not really matter if you use Dino or Fully Synthetic engine oils, if you do a lot of short distance driving where your engine oil does not reach FULL operating temperature..then.. in the end your Oil turns into CRAP...IMO a lot of truth in that statement, particularly if you leave the same oil in your car for months and many miles between servicing..

Your Oil never gets fully Hot, may have too much H2O or moisture in it, or too much fuel or fuel wash, too many suspended ultra fine particles of metals and ash and carbon, etc, etc.....too much CRAP basically...

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

True, I make it a point to take the long way and drive her hard to give the oil a chance to do what it was designed to do.

madcows

Valvoline:


Valvoline® Specialty Racing Oil ("Not Street Legal")

The low-detergent, high zinc racing oil optimized for track-use only, delivers increased horspower and extreme wear protection

* High zinc/phosphorus provides extreme wear protection, including flat tappet applications
* Low detergent formula to deliver maximum horsepower on the track
* Recommended for race engines only
* Compatible with gasoline or alcohol fuels
* Available by request through NAPA, Carquest, O'Reilly, Jeg's and performance shops served by Keystone Automotive

http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/Special...acing_Oils.pdf



VR1 Racing Oil (VR1)

The #1 selling racing motor oil. High zinc provides race-level protection for any vehicle.

* High zinc/phosphorus provides extreme wear protection, including flat tappet applications
* Additional friction modfiers to help deliver maximum horsepower
* Enhanced anti-foam system protects engine during extreme stress
* Compatible with gasoline or alcohol fuels
* Available through leading auto parts retailers

http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/VR-1_Racing_Motor_Oil.pdf


Valvoline® Racing Synthetic (VR1) Motor Oil

The advanced racing synthetic trusted by top engine builders and crew chiefs to protect in extreme racing conditions.

* Engineered to deliver maximum horsepower
* High zinc/phosphorus for extreme anti-wear, including flat tappets
* Track-proven to maintain pressure and protect from foaming
* Compatible with gasoline or alcohol fuels
* Available at participating AutoZone stores

(No data sheet)



FYI: My grandpa used this in his 58949403HP model T that still runs strong, and trouble free - even his hand crank starter!

Flashwing

Actually, this information combined with the API Oil Viscosity Range Chart might help people figure out some of their oil choices:

http://www.infineum.com/information/...sity-2004.html

Now, this is as of 2004 and I'm sure there are other charts. This is the one I found the quickest.

If you have a specific brand of oil you like and you understand how viscosity is measured then you have a good idea of which specific viscosity you want to use.

As an example, one of the reasons people like(d) German Castrol is because it's considered a "thick 30 weight" oil. From this chart anything that is a 30 weight oil is greater than 9.3 cSt but less than 12.5 cSt. Now granted this is operating temperature of 100 degrees Celsius.

On the flip side, you can see the huge differences in 40 degree Celsius viscosity. Using the Eneos as an example, the 0w-50 has a cSt of 104 while the 5w-30 is 58.1. That's a difference of 45.9 cSt at the same temperature. At the same time the difference in operating temperature viscosity is 9.6 cSt.

Again it comes down to what aspects of lubrication you believe are the most important. There's value in this information in that you're going to understand exactly what your putting into your motor. On the one hand it's complicated but on the other it's very simple. Just remember how your Rx8 is being used.

Oil brand choice for the most part means choosing between various group base oils and then whatever additive packages those companies use. Motul has some good information on Ester Group V oils.

http://www.motul.com.au/fact_sheets/estel_oil.html

If you run Eneos, Motul or Redline you are using Ester based oils. Test it out with your dipstick sometime.

BITOG has another great technical paper about Esters...be prepared to have your mind blown away: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...94#Post1252272

Now, one thing to keep in mind is any Group V oil only contains a percentage of Ester. As the article above states, it could be anywhere from 5% to 25% depending on the application. Otherwise it's mixed with a PAO base.

In my opinion, there are two very attractive aspects of esters which I think are great for the RX8. First, it's high thermal stability means being able to withstand much warmer environments while still providing protection. Esters are used in jet engines as lubricants. Second, the fact that ester allows the oil to be attracted to metal surfaces means there is always some kind of barrier to prevent dry starts.

The one concern I have is since esters are made of acids and alcohols they don't react well with water. This means that coolant leaks could render the oil totally useless and cause serious internal engine damage. However one could argue blowing your coolant seal would be a pretty big problem.

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

maybe we ought to use animal fat and Hatcol blend?
OD

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

[QUOTE=Flashwing;3316366]BITOG has another great technical paper about Esters...be prepared to have your mind blown away: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...94#Post1252272

That was an incredible article as usual from that site.

I wonder what Royal Purple's Ester content is vs Red Line's?

Paul.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

You are so right Flash. I feel a lot of people choose without really taking the time to research it. Everyone just pays so much attention just to the bottle numbers.

JinDesu

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for seeing this thread, I am also curious to the amount of esters in RP.

I planned to 0W-40 RP in my car come my next oil change. It's a little difficult to understand the oil sheet without understanding a lot of the terms. It's hard to gauge what is the correct CsT/SSU value we need unless someone can provide empirical evidence that a certain range of values is good or bad. At running temperatures (210F), all of them are at such a low viscosity that it doesn't matter.

What I'd like to see of these oils is how they could shear, and after shearing what their viscosities turn into. The way I understand, our engines need more viscosity (not too much though) to provide the additional metal on metal protection.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

If you look at some of the spec sheets some will list "Shear Stability % Viscosity Loss" as a spec. Schaeffer offers up think data and some others but not all of them. Now knowing what exactly that spec means is a whole other issue.

JinDesu

iTrader: (2)

I see it in the Schaeffer files. Mobil also provides the 150C high shear rate viscosity value. Most of the others don't show that information.

As far as I know, one of the main reasons why we do run a heavier weight oil is to have the additional protection should the shearing occur. I've heard lots of comments where people say 5W30 shears to 5W20, etc. I would love to see documentation on that.

Also, I'm confused as to what shearing entails (why it happens, etc). For example, when an engine oil shears, does it shear in it's entirety? Or only the portion affected by the heat? And does it remain sheared? Will it return to it's normal viscosity after it cools down?

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

All good questions. maybe Flash or someone who has research this more can comment and possibly link some data for our own education.

Flashwing

I honestly have not looked heavily into Royal Purple's lineup to see which oils use which specific base oils. As I mentioned previously, RP has been rather tight lipped about the specific contents of their oil.

As for what cSt values we need, that's honestly the million dollar question. Only Mazda's engineers could answer as to what viscosity the engine was designed to use. The only real guide we have are the pressure specifications but it appears those are minimum specs. That's still helpful because as long as you know what your pressure should be at your operational temperature then you can gauge what viscosity you need.

Now, that presents a problem. Unless you know what your oil temperatures are and what your pressure is then you're up a creek.

Shearing occurs when oil is squeezed out of locations in such high loads that it breaks apart the molecules. Over time, this can cause the oil's viscosity to thin out. Now, how much viscosity loss is going to happen is going to depend on the additive packages, oil type etc.

If oil shears the viscosity at that time doesn't matter. What matters is the barrier protections the oil provides.

JinDesu

iTrader: (2)

Got it, thanks. To my understanding, synthetic is much harder to shear, and provides better protection upon shearing than dino?

And regarding the pressure, what should it be at? Is there a table for the oil pressure somewhere?

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Here is some of my data with 0W-30 German Castrol



My oil Temp gauge will go in this weekend and I will post up more data with oil temps. Then hopefully next weekend my oil cooler will go in.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

It's interesting that Redline 5w30 has a HTHS viscosity of 3.8. That's slightly higher than what SAE requires of 15w40 or 50 wt oil.

And, RP doesn't publish this data...

[edit] To answer the question of what HTHS is, read this thread.

Mazmart

iTrader: (12)

Great stuff. I love it.

Paul.