when it's above 8500, the stock rotor's gear might loose and allows the rotor to psychically "touching/striking" the irons. It's not just a Renesis thing. Its a known issue for decades.

That's why there is this snap ring thing service offer by Racing beat. it's an expensive fix(for a snap ring that cost like maybe <5 bux?) but it helps.

they also change their oil every 500 miles ...

is it a surprised? we're talking about MNAO here. a company that probably 1/2 the people working inside have no idea what they are selling (Rotary Engine)

Good stuff guys, I did the SSV test this morning and Team is right.

Ash8,

Thanks for the M tip but I can confirm that those wire colors listed are not correct for different year 8's. We confirmed this last month between an 04' and 05' RX-8. The wire colors were different for some reason. I also spoke to bumblebeerx8 as he posted the info and he too found his wire colors were different.

I did read it, I was mostly referring to gear/bearing damage from spinning too fast.

When we hit "redline" and hear a beep at 9k our engine is actually at 8600. I have taken my engine past that plenty of times with no noticeable damage. I've mis shifted and went to 10k as well, I'm sure when I crack my engine open I'll see some very light damage, might not even be noticeable to the naked eye.

They clearly sent out this bulletin because teams were complaining of engine failure. They are required to use the Renesis, and were most likely having a bitch fit because engines kept blowing. In 2010 they made several other changes to the map for cold starts and fuel trim, in 2009 they changed the rev limit from 8300 to 8600. They make sure the engines stay below 8600 because that's where these things live all day. For us daily drivers, the difference between 8600 and 9000 isn't going to blow up your engine in in 2 seconds, come on guys...

You are seriously comparing your Daily driven occasionally tracked cars (exception of a few track only 8's) to formula cars. With the only commonality the Renesis core. They have different water pumps, pulleys, throttle body, lubrication and cooling system, with a stand alone ECU, inside an 1800 lb frame.

We have a bunch of random shit, electronic everything, 500 lbs of wire in a 3000 lb car. Its not the same car, its barely the same engine.

I realize that most of you in here get that, I just don't want more misinformation to spread around these forums. We have enough in circulation already.

Could not agree more with what Shady says...

And 9K thanks for confirming the Wire Colors are also wrong for Series 1's in that MNAO M-Tip...!!
So, we also have wrong Injector Colors and Part Numbers for the 4 x 2009 (S2) Injectors and this...I hope the 6 x 2004 S1 Injector colors are correct, sorry, but I don't have these in my OE parts stock to visually verify.

9K...on OE Engine Wiring Harnesses for Series 1's...

There were a total of 9 different iterations made, 3 for Auto 4 Speed, 3 for Manual and 3 for Auto 6 Speed...

Roughly the original Harness, then ALL 'a' one way change (new for old part ONLY) for the 9 iteration changes, again roughly up to 2005, between 2005 and 2007, and from 2007 until Series II's, which are different yet again.

In the end though they all supersedes to just 3 different Engine Harnesses in Series I's, one for Auto 4 speed, and one for 6 speed Auto, and one for all S1 Manual Trans.

I can't confirm all the actual wire color changes for all 9 iterations, but I have no doubt 9K is correct seeing all the errors in anything MNAO puts out in their own M Tip Bulletins.

Factory TSB's from Japan are just copied directly, almost word for word.

We haven't cracked open an 06 or 07 as far as I know. I think the changes noted were on Hoss's car which is an 05 iirc, compared to 9k, houston, and mine which are all early model 04's.

That explains it. It's weird though that wire colors would be different on two early build 04's


The colors on Houston's 04' were different from bumblebeerx8's 04'.

0_o weird... Freaking Mazda!

Yeah Houston and I compared two different diagrams and descriptions and his wire colors were different from both. A couple of them matched and then there would be one or two wires that were a totally different color combination. I called bumblbeerx8 and he was like, "yeah I have seen different colors as well" :lol: So basically we just kind of put them how they appeared to go based on length, etc. We got it right though.

That is the best way!

Get it right get it tight.

not really, its a race car. we run with star mazda, and they get 4, 20 minute sessions a day, for 2 days. with ~2 minute lap times, this is about 10 laps of a 3 mile track, so they do about 30 miles per session. 8 sessions a weekend.

this is only 240 miles per race weekend, and i'm sure they all change oil between races anyways, even though it looks like they don't need to

doesnt oil changes in true race cars have as much to do with fuel dilution as it does with oil breakdown?

Where would fuel be getting into the oil? Leak down from piston engines makes sense, but we don't have a leak down point for fuel to get to the oil pan? Unless it's going between the housing and the irons, which would be concerning for different reasons.

fuel can get into the oil. Every engine has blow by. Try this --remove your dipstick and go out and run a lap or two---hook a catch can up to it first:)

This thread is going to turn into an oil debate in 5 posts I got $10 on it.

who's go the over/under?

Rotaries have a lot of fuel dilution actually. My test have shown that Mobil1 tends to deal with it a lot better than my previous oil did though. If you look at some of my old samples you will see the high % of fuel showing in the oil.

Done.

I also noticed that the oil preassures where a lot higher than stock. Is this achieved by a more powerful pump?

Arent they on par with the S2 though?

Nope, oil pressure regulator mod. Mazmart and other builders make them. My Mazmart mod made my pressure a bit higher than what what done by Pineapple Racing on my current engine. I currently see max pressures of about 100PSI versus 120-130PSI with the Mazmart mod. Stock maxes out at 70PSI give or take a few PSI.

Answers to all your questions can be found here.

Star Race Cars Parts Catalog

Not for me :), as many are Star Mazda specific, many look genuine Mazda, but there is no corresponding MAZDA Part Number to cross reference that I can see....

Find that and you have the holey grail...well sort of.

Example...Fuel Rail Hose..
FUEL RAIL HOSE
050-587 FUEL RAIL HOSE (050-556)

Now is it S1 or S2, I cant tell from pic..
N3H1-13-495B Fuel Hose Series 1
N3R1-13-495A Fuel Hose Series 2

From what I can tell they are only using S2 fuel injectors, everything else are modified parts specific for the formula car or from the S1. There was no HP increase from the s2 engine so they decided to stay with the S1.

I wonder how much this part costs.... Star Race Cars Parts Catalog

Very interesting catalog; I wonder if ordinary mortals can order from it? :ylsuper:

No clue... but it looks yummy.

you can upgrade your renesis with the front cover, pulley spacer, front plate, water pump, and sump tray :).

I'm more interested in the water pump and if its upgraded or just modified to fit a bigger pulley for overdrive purposes.....

So is using the engine to brake bad for it since its not getting any fuel (premix)?

And their muffler must be good for +20 hp, right?

I looked at their water pump and was immediately curious if it was stock or not.

Yup..Timing Cover does not look S2 either..or S1 :)

I'm not sure if its aftermarket but that pulley is larger than the ac compressor lol (sarcasm).

Yea its a custom cover with AN fittings for the sump setup.

I spotted the heat shield between the LIM and the header. I'd like to see how it attaches.

the water pump assembly is an 86-88 Rx7 unit. they are probably using that because the Rx8 has the water pump and front cover in one casting, and they are using the dry sump front cover which isn't

i get one if they can paint it in pink and cost 200 bux

This is awesome, thanks for sharing 9k. :)

odula japan has something like that years ago.

Got any pics of it installed?

Just get some sheet metal line it with reflective tape and strap it to the LIM.

they premix at 200/1?

I read the link OP provided. Thanks, OP.

I find this all interesting, but- and let me stress I'm pretty out of it today, so I may be missing the obvious- how do many of the maintenance procedures, techniques and intervals regarding this dedicated-race rotary have relevance and/or applicability to daily driven, garden variety, consumer owned RX8s?

Most of it doesn't have any direct application. Most of it is simply interesting.

There are a few bits that do apply still, since the engine itself is still pretty similar. Engine management and engine usage is different, as is cooling and lubrication. But there are still things we can use from it. Like the RPM limitations due to housing damage, the fact that Mazda still sees premixing as a good thing, etc...

You re wrong!

Mazda knows best we know nothing! 5w20 ftw! Premix is for idiots cuz omp.is more than enough ftw! Yada yada yada !!!!

Friend bought one overseas, dont have a pic now, will ask.if he can snap one for me. I think odula has it on its web site.

the dry sump oil system alone costs more than you are willing to drop on an engine

Amazing ain't it, the intake resonance works fantastically on a zero overlap engine but the exhaust with far more energy apparently does nothing :naughty:

Never really seen any particular housing wear or even chatter marks on our racers, but then we make sure we inject plenty of fuel on the overrun (as much for side seal cooling and lubrication as housing wear too).

Don't get too hung up on the oil change times in that PDF, that's normal for pretty much any race vehicle.

Yup. I've never seen you mention it, though other racers have. I don't think either "side" is wrong, just something involved that isn't being shared/documented that makes the difference.

With the unknowns of the street engines, especially remans, a cautious approach to that is best in my opinion.

do they run pre mixed premix ( VP fuels has it available?)? I think they do.
On the exhaust--they have a nice flowing set up--but iit doesnt look like it is a "tuned". to me. But I know nothing really.
I am curious Philip--injecting at overun doesnt wash the lubrication away? Or do you have a high enought pre mix ratio to compensate for that?