Attention Experts: Break In Oil. Needed or no?
 

So, I was at an engine shop this afternoon and noticed they had break in oil on the shelf. I asked the owner of the shop (40 years building all kinds of motors) about it and he said that it is definitely needed because you must bed engines in before the first normal oil change otherwise the bedding in process will never fully happen. He said if you start off with a synthetic this is even more true because the wear rate will be so low.

Rob at pineapple (built my motor) gave me a specific break in procedure and told me not to use synthetic motor oil until the break in procedure was finished. But I wonder if I should use specific break in motor oil or not? I see that Amsoil, RP, and others make specific break in oil.

I just wonder what you guys have heard about it.

I've never heard anyone suggest that before. (Just the usual advice to make that first oil change after the first 500 miles or so.)

Yeah that is what I have also heard. Pineapple actually recommends oil changes after 30 minutes of running, at 500, 1000. and 1500.

you'll get a ton of different views on this and the reality is there's no real CONCRETE evidence to show one method is superior to another.

I know Rotarygod once mentioned he believed the best way to break in a rotary is to drive it like hell and change fluids often.

As for special break-in oil; I doubt it'll do you much good on a reman / rebuilt motor since the parts aren't brand spanking new. IF we were talking about a brand new motor with all new internals then MAYBE.

What I have always done with new cars is to change the oil at 500 miles and then at 1,000 while easing the motor into heavier engine load / speed along the way. (similar to Racing Beat's recommendations)
After that, regular oil changes and you'll be good.

Yeah I just wonder is the added zinc and phosphorus anti-wear additives would have any benefits in a rotary since it appears the break in oils are obviously catered towards piston motors. Plus I figured this site needed another oil related topic to discuss :lol:

do what rob said:)

I am definitely following his break in procedure.

use the cheapest good oil you can get for the first few changes.

cam recommends about the same as Rob. Cheapest good oil you can fine for the 1st couple--dont forget the filter and put a magnet on the filter----please. You will be surprised at what it catchs.

Yeah I have always used magnets on the filter so i will continue to do so. When I pulled my oil pan I did see the fine wet sand like build up on the metal where the magnet was.

more important than the arguable seating process is to get all the remnants out of the engine, which is where the 500 mile oil change comes into play.

i'd worry more about debris inside the motor circulating than components not seating properly in a rotary engine.

If someone rebuilds an engine ( piston ) , they have to worry a lot about piston rings seating, and there's a lot of science there.

The rings just move back and forth, so the ring material has to have the right composition, spring tension against cylinder wall, and friction to bed the rings in.

From the factory all this has already been studied, and the car comes out with an oil with lots of moly, etc.

Since our compression seals mostly have once through oil like premix or sohn, I wouldn't worry about special, but it can't hurt to run any cheap dino to flush after 500 miles, etc., like Pineapple said, then go to the 0w40.

I still believe that the rotary is much easier to lube than a piston engine with cams and cylinder walls, and that break in oil is sure to be for piston engines.

I'd follow Pineapple just to make them happy, but I wouldn't put anything special which might be detrimental.

the better question about break in procedures applies to the OMP and it's internal lubrication properties.

do the apex seals seat better with less lubrication? do they seat better with a properly bled OMP from the get go? do they seat better with premixing fuel for the first tank of gas?

those are better questions that apply to breaking in a rotary engine versus the internal rotating assembly which rarely has issue short of oil starvation.


piston engine crank oil has an impact on the seating of the compression seals(rings), in rotaries the crankcase oil is only used in a small amount on a small area of the internals to lubricate the compression seals(apex and side) for break in.

Yeah I will run the SOHN and premix the gas from the get go. My oil injectors and oil metering pump lines are all new.

So what about the resin that's sprayed inside new chambers as mentioned in the book. I never heard much discussion about that and when it wears off.

I would drive it easy, vary the speed, check for noises and leaks, and keep the revs low for a thousand or so miles.

I agreed with rob.

What I did to my "maybe kinda new Reman engine" Was I changed the oil out at 500 miles. cuz I was thinking the engine should put out a lot of crap during break in. and it sucks to leave them running around in the oil system. I know the engine is Reman but many of the parts are new so the breakin rules should apply.

Oh yes buy some regular oil, Autozone/Advance/Whatever has all kinds of cheap oil change special every month for like 11.99 (lowest I've seen) not bad.

I bought a case of Shell Clean (Regular stuff) 10w40 for my upcoming FC break in. 12 quart for like 17 bux. not bad :)

personally i changed my 1st oil/filter at fifty miles. The magnet did catch a little--the oil was like brand new. But I didnt flush my oil coolers before i started the new engine. Oil is cheap.

I did crank mine 1st to build some oil pressure before I started it. I have always liked doing that.
I was also very careful to not get engine temps over 200F at 1st.

I have about 3-4K on my new engine and the oil is still staying very clean--it hardly discolors at all.
I am sure that will change

RG's approach makes sense to me, break it in like you are going to drive it, but doesnt he also say take it easy for the 1st couple hundred miles?

Yeah I will change it after running it the first 30 minutes and then at 500, 1000, and 1500. Breaking it in like I drive is not a good idea at all :lol:

A good oil filter is also a must.....

PM me your recommendation (to avoid oil filter discussion/shit storm).

just get any good filter, anything made by Champion Labs(like Mobil1, K&N) or Royal Purple filter(fuxking expensive oil filter)

Actually at 18 micron, OE filter is not bad at all, I have like a dozen of them :)

I would avoid FRAM :lol: however :)

Oil Filter Magnets ARE great...;)

I agree, use a good quality Dino (gee most are cheap for you guys in the US), I would change it at around 600 miles and again at 1200 with a new Oil Filter at 1200...and then at 3000.

oil filter--used a series 2 oem mazda filter ONLY. The by pass valve has changed and I know Rob has increased the engines oil pressures. You do not want to be bypassing your oil filter.

You are the King of Facepalm

well--heck I have to be known for something?

But concerning the oil filter-- I am right my friend:)
The bypass valve in the oil filter changed to a higher opening pressure for the S2.
On cold starts with the S1 oil filter and a 40wgt oil--the by pass valve will open.

hmm, if it's FD regulator then ... not much point to use a different oil filter ...

this is good to know before i dump dam near $80 in oil just to dump is out again

Huh? What do you mean?
The filter by pass only is affected by the oil filter mediums response to the engine's oil pressure. If the oil can't get through the medium fast enough and pressure builds the by pass valve pops open to insure an adequete oil flow.
The S2 model oil filter bypass valve changed to one with a higher pressure valve. I remember that you are not supposed to use a S1 oil filter on a S2 model per Mazzda.
If you have placed a modified oil pressure regulator into the s1 model you should be using the S2 oil filter.
This is old stuff?

i was referring to the OP. However, I now feel much better knowing that he relies on an expert like yourself over his engine builder.

http://www.oceansbridge.com/painting...ian-Vrancx.JPG

:lol: I am relying on my builder. He recommends good old 10W-30 Dino oil for break in so I picked up a couple of gallons of GTX. But the fact that the made specific break in oil was new to me.

yes, formulated for reciprocating engines with a camshaft valvetrain ...

However, if your going to use a qualified builder it would be smart to pay the extra money to run it in on an engine dyno, they verify that it is operating properly and it shows up ready to bolt in and go


.

I recommend changing the oil at 1/4 mile intervals for the first 10 miles then move on to every second tuesday .

That would be sweet.

:lol: Don't temp me.

:SHOCKED: I thought it was every 1/8 mile and then every second Wednesday till Labor day on leap years. Otherwise Columbus Day on the regular calender year. Unless it falls on a Thursday. Then you can only change the oil between 3:00 and 4:00 am. :dunno:

I was told if you boil new engine oil first for a minimum of 15 minutes and let it cool you remove all the nasty hydro percolated synthesized carbon molecules (known as HPSCM) which will prevent the oil from suspending fine engine metal particles. The boiling allows all metal particles to sink to the bottom of your oil pan where it won't be disturbed until the next oil change.
Then any unwanted matter is flushed out at next oil change.

I just drilled a hole in my oil pan and keep a 50 gallon drum of oil in my trunk with a hose snaked through the cabin to a hand crank. Yeah, it's a bitch.. but my oil is so pristine. At least the trail i leave everywhere looks clean.

it sounds like it might be cheaper to just run the engine until it burns all oil eventually kill the engine than doing what you just said ...

my apologies , quite correct . What was I thinking :banghead::banghead:

dont be silly, this thread is all about using the right oil. Cause it's out there!

as we all know, the oil we each individually use is the best. The oil everyone else uses is crap

Some of you guys are much more versed in oil pressure conditions than me, but I do know that the Mobil 1 0w40 has the same flow rate at 41 deg f as the Mobil 1 5w20 at 32 deg f.

Some people using as daily driver might have to start way lower than freezing, but I use as my fun car, and I haven't ever started below 40 deg f which we are told is the summer tires limit to have traction.

That's why I'm a 0w40 fan instead of 5w40, 10w40, or15w40.

There's a cool graph at Widman.biz oil calculators that you can play around with to check oil flow of different oil against each other.

I changed my oil at 500 miles then 1000 then 3000.

Then I didn't change it for 8 months, that was 2 weeks ago!

My advice, don't follow my advice.

yall are right--never seen an oil related failure anyway. Just a few front bearings that were worn some--thats all.
We probably could do a 10K oil change without a problem--just keep topping it off.
Heck why dont we drain the old oil, boil it, add an additive package and put it back in?
We make our own beer--heck make our own oil.
I am the king of the backyard bubbaizing

Lets do it!

why are we boiling the oil though?

cause ! Purify it and piss off the neigbors!

Actually I have heard good things about the Mobil 1--0/40 wgt euro spec oil --may try that!

You should smell the M series oil for BMW its made by castrol...

That stuff is wicked.

:lol: That reminds of the thread that was started about foul smelling oil.

even my dogs wont go around that stuff--old motorcycle days--hah

Sorry od, u r 2 yrs late into the game. Lol