Looking for a EDUCATED engine conversation...
 

Ill cut to the chase...
Im another one of those kids as you'll call me who was given a car as a gift by my parents. Sadly, i dont know stick shift (yet!) and my parents didnt want to bother teaching me or have a car that was for reasons like "ease to drive", so i didnt have the choice between auto or manual, so i got a auto-tragic 8. -___-

now with that being said, im looking for just a little more power, maybe eventually getting stick shift in it. Now i could be mistaken, but i have read that the race rx-8's like you see in the grand prix run on 4 port 13b's (not stock of course, but 4 port none the less). could someone confirm this? can someone teach me the basics of the 4 port and 6 port 13b engines? i know i know, many of you will say "use the search function!" and flame me. i have searched, and begun reading, etc. but who know if what you share with me could be things i havent learned/read yet? plus it wouldnt be bad to eventually sticky this topic if it eventually has enough information.

basic dumb questions i also have include:
if i went from auto to manual, could i potentially keep the same gauge cluster i have now?

if its true about the 4 port having more top end power over the 6 port, despite having less low end over the 6, could i use it with a manual 6 speed? or a 5 speed?

im sure many more questions to come..
(oh and dont worry... i put on my flame suit already)

These are from what I've heard around here, hope it helps.

1. the grand prix run 20b motors and have little left on them from the original rx8.
2. 4port auto= 197hp
6port auto= 212hp according to mazda.
3.manual swaps have been done but now it might be better to save your money sell your auto and buy a manual.
4. search. every question you have has been covered many times. if you cant find it on the search here, google it the threads will come up.

just enjoy the car you have vs the car you think you want. even an auto rx8 is better then a lot of other cars out there.

4port engines have a little more torque but the difference in power, the powerband itself and the redline offset this.
Given the cost of what you have in mind i think that trading your car in and getting a manual would be the best choice. Learning to drive stick requires maybe 1 hour :)

I am sorry, but I saw the title, and had to post...

"Looking for a EDUCATED engine conversation..."

Our car wasn't created for speed or power - try driving it in the twisties/track/autocross and really learn to handle to car properly. I'm sure this will be far more gratifying experiencing than adding an couple of bolt-on's that will result in a very small/negligible gain.

1) yeah i figured that, just wasnt sure about the whole 4 and 6 port thing on those motors.
2) as ive read, and its even bigger a difference with auto because more hp is lost apparently in the auto, substantially more ive read.
3) ive read in the at to mt conversion thread it'll cost me roughly $3k.. my car has 40k miles exactly, so i mean if i sold my engine and trans and everything i wont need, couldnt i make that right back up?
4) ive been doing a lot of reading and searching, but some of my questions were not answered in other topics, or i overlooked them.


as i wrote and if you go see dyno results between auto's and manuals, there is quite a difference between the auto and the manual's rwhp.


ok thanks for the info :) and yeah, ive been told (and i learn pretty quick too) two members on the forum offered to help teach me manual so im covered in that aspect lol


yeah, im aware the redline is 8.5~9k, vs 7.5 in the auto, and that theres no gear display on the manual, but those are petty things to me because i know where the redline is for the manual engines and idgaf about a gear display. as long as i can see my fuel level, speed on the digital display, and it still shows my rpm's accurately, i dont really care. it saves me that much more money you know? but if i cant reuse it then whatever lol. (of course thats understanding i do the swap and not find one to trade for)

trade for a manual. it'll save you a headache in the end.
Or, enjoy what you have.
True that a tranny swap has been done, but that doesn't mean it's the most efficient way.

I agree, but my point was, the rx8 is a slow car in general compared to other modern sports cars. In the end, it was built for great handling, not impressive acceleration. In the end, you may try to spend thousands of dollars doing a conversion only to regret the entire process, as the car will still be "slow" by today's standards.

Really, the only viable solution would be to trade the car in for a manual transmission. Even then, though, you will get tired of the speed.

I am sure forced induction or nitrous would vastly improve an automatic 4 port RX8, just as it improves a manual 8.

figs is wrong. ignore his post.
keep the car. be happy with what you have. save your money. in the future when you have a choice and the money, drive the cars you like that are in your price range and then trade the AT 8 in, use the cash you have saved for the rest so you dont have payments.

/educated conversation.

educated conversation part deaux

You have a used 4port AT RX-8 in Florida. At your earliest opportunity get the oil changed with with something better than the 5w20 thats probably in there. 10/40 or 20/50. Then get the car engine decarbed and have the compression checked. post the results here when you have them. Dont let them tell you it's good or bad, get the actual results and post them here.


/ educated conversation part deaux

Gee thanks, well after doing some digging it seems I was wrong about the cluster not being compatable. I'm pretty sure the 4 port doesn't have as much top end power as the 6, this is obvious due to hp differences. The gears in the 4 are taller in comparison. And I don't think you can bolt on a 4 port to a 5/6 Speed tranny but again these are all just assumptions on my end. I'm sorry but I like facts not just a statement saying something is wrong, hell I'd like to learn too because I would hate to be giving out misinformation.

You can mate both a 6 or a 5 speed to a 4 port engine.
As a matter of fact, 4 ports were sold in europe with a 5 gear manual transmission ;)

Actually found that out right now, these forums know everything :)

thats what im wanting to know here... im aware of this, so i wouldnt HAVE to swap the engine if i didnt have the money or desire to right now. (cause when it becomes a project car in the future, whos to say ill keep it a 13b? lol)
If I keep my 4 port, and drop a 6 speed on it...
i can keep my drive shaft, would i need to get a ecu from a USA/North America rx8 or one from Europe? and i would have to change my gauge cluster, right? or could i get away with the one i have now knowing when i have to shift and whatnot (~8krpm) i know and dont care about the gear position display and crap. and then i'd have to buy a clutch kit and all clutch parts, a second oil cooler. and get the "pcm" and the abs pump and other stuff from the same car the ecu came from (as explained in the conversion topic). would that be it? cause that could cost me a lot less than the "full conversion" with a engine and all.

I have no idea unfortunately, it would be a fairly uncommon swap. I'm also unfamiliar with how the autotragic's pcm behaves as far as the transmission management goes, i can't help you :(

Itll cost less to trade in the car and buy a mt

im not doing this anytime soon, so by then the value of the car will be much less and i wont get shit for trading it in. plus the money i would spend on lets say 11.5k of taxes would be almost as much as a used trans, gauge cluster, ecu, pcm, and other parts i would need at minimum for the swap. figured since it wont be anytime soon and id lose so much value between now and then and all that shit that when im ready for the manual, the swap will be the cheaper route.

The autotragic's will not even engage the starter if the TCM is not seen by the PCM.

to the OP,
enjoy the 8 for what it is and what it is able to do. Yes, boost makes most cars more fun to drive. This one, is no exception. ;)

Ok so I have an idea, how about if you swapped out just auto trans for a manual along with the pedal assembly and clutch lines and etc. But left the 4 port engine and edu and gauge cluster and etc. And now for the kicker, just left the tcm in the neutral position.

It seems to me the only thing that wouldn't work would be the backup lights, which you could wire up.

The reason why I bring this up is we had done the same thing to my girlfriends civic before.

wouldnt boost make more expensive of an install than a trans swap?

i hope someone could answer my question in post #16...

i think we have gone beyond the original scope of this thread in the last 2 posts.
There is a thread somewhere in the AT section that pokes into the issues of the TCM, PCM pairing.

EDIT:
Doh i was thinking this was the "Don't flame me for silly questions" thread.


Anyway post # 16.

yes

yes and yes

You would have to get the mileage fixed by a Mazda stealership. If of course you picked upa Cluster,PCM that has lower miles than what you currently have.

True, you could be saving some money instead of a full swap. Let me ask you this.
What is your time and frustrations worth? I'd go the full conversion route if no one figures out how to disable the TCM portion lookup of the PCM.

Post #21
I tried that. it gets confused when it sees RPM,load and the wheel sensors when in Neutral.
what year is the Civic? and how computerized is it?

Post #22
maybe, maybe not. either way you have the 192 Hp the 4 port puts out. Boost is more fun.

thanks for clearing a lot of my questions up dude. when time comes around for me to do stuff to the 8, ill put all of this information and the info in the At to MT swap thread under heavy consideration. :icon_tup:

[quote=09Factor;3918955]Post #21
I tried that. it gets confused when it sees RPM,load and the wheel sensors when in Neutral.
what year is the Civic? and how computerized is it?quote]

The civic was a 95 obd1 so that might have been y, the only reason why i ask is the rx8 can be moving , you put it in neutral and rev, so you have movement and rpm

In THEORY, i would think that leaving the 4 port with its ecu and the tcm in neutral or maybe park, it should drive fine with a manual trans and etc.

you say you have tryied it in neutral with a manual trans? did it throw codes or just run funny.