Thank you again for the sugestion with the crashbar. I will pursue to clear the foam padding and to make the front bumper grille flow more air. Of course I want max amount of fresh air towards the climate/water radiators.
Being winter right now, this is not a priority though. |
well I can send you an appropriate maf tube if you want it since I’m switching to a MAP system and also have a backup too if ever needed again.
lmk. |
Originally Posted by Brettus
(Post 4934186)
Dunno if you guys know this : The JDM crash bar isn't far off what RMrx made from the US one .........
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...fda29bf0d.jpeg . https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...11311af79.jpeg . https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...f16d85e05.jpeg . |
While the car is getting its pressure pipes made, lets talk a bit about the WMI system I plan to run. I say "plan" because it's been a pain in the back since the purchasing of it - I've lost 2 parcels so far due to this pandemic, and one of them had my wmi nozzle and solenoid. The other parcel with the pump arrived, but the pump was DOA. Fast forward a few weeks and now we are here: reordered the wmi nozzle, solenoid, hose and have manually rewound the pump motor to get it to work. Honestly AEM stuff is just overpriced GARBAGE. I still wish I had gone with something else but the money already went down the drain.
To control WMI, I've made my own multifunction controller. Long story short, it will use MAP and MAF sensor signals to give me a progressive-by-air-volume spray. I also have an EMAP sensor as a plausibility check for the mix of intake pressure and airflow, if there is no backpressure how there can intake pressure? :) bonus points for reporting EMAP which I find to be critical to such a setup. Since this WMI thing will draw some amps, like 10-12A, I had made up an entire 12v ignition switched system, with a relay and fuse. I have also laid the hardware to implement an electronic boost controller, but time will tell if I'll bother with it. 7-10 psi isn't that much anyway. I'll leave the pictures tell the rest of the story. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...371045b199.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...45ecf3054e.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...a38c3c2830.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...5ff3c0de7b.png https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...e2b3598d2c.jpg I've found a neat spot to mount the WMI pump without taking room in the trunk. The tank itself is a metal jerrycan, if it's good enough for gas its good enough for whatever I find to use as alcohol. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...244dfa1c84.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...c5e92cc5a.jpeg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...53064283f.jpeg |
as long as it’s not a steel container, otherwise it’s likely to have a corrosion issue in the near future.
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https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...8650db49a3.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...045682901f.jpg Left to do - intake and charge pipes. By mid january this thing should be done. |
Originally Posted by ciprianrx8
(Post 4934660)
7-10 psi isn't that much anyway.
Do I have any empirical evidence of this? No lol, but it was noticeable enough doing back to back pulls. |
I have the hardware in place and the software written - but if I ever put them to use, it will be after the ecu tune and wmi is set up properly. Don't want to be juggling with 10 glass marbles at once.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...dc628d7e2.jpeg Still not done, but getting there. |
Allright. Car is back from fab work shop.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...091906be62.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...1756297d6f.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...56dc20819d.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...3fbe805b43.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...a5e9efc7a3.jpg Left to do - a lot. No time for the car right now, so this will sit stuck for some days now. Bottom line is that it runs and drives, still NA. |
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...586a06a004.jpg
Small weather update:
Here is that pride and joy of mine, a piece of kit that I'd say does the best there can be on this car as far as NOT getting a standalone ECU and a hodge-podge of gauges: https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...8b696a4fb4.jpg I've given the OEM sat nav case a new purpose. Shown here is a diagnostics/tuning screen. It changes to this screen when the lower screen is tapped to show the buttons that select boost levels. The screen dims with the scroll wheel near the steering column and folds up/down just like it once did @ the factory. Sneakily in the astray resides a smaller touch screen that doubles for the most important gauges (as a backup) or as a boost level selector. It also allows me to clear any errors in boost control that may come up. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...b3ec8a917.jpeg Everything half-decent but that EMAP I was speaking about. I also seem to be running a lot of boost for the poor airflow I'm getting... https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...1259f7c4b4.jpg At the press of a button I can make my blow off open up once abs_eng_load gets past 60% and the wastegate to run on spring pressure. This leads to just about NA flow/power levels, safe to run on 95 RON gas. Then I can toggle my first boost controller PWM table to get about 8 psi and 150% engine load. And if I get my hands on 100 RON(93 MON) octane gas, then boost town is here at about 170% abs engine load. And while we are on the topic of gas, how about some instant fuel economy to spoil the mood and some fuel trims. Gas stations where I'm from seem to mix some water with it so that they sell more of it for less dime. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...e143d4e521.jpg The great view of night time driving. Notice how coolant/oil gauges tell a story too. Both screens can be folded away. Right, the protections I've thought of are:
If anyone is interested in those gizmos, here is more detail: https://www.rotarytronics.com/produc...-rx8-gauge-kit |
Awesome work on the display !
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Ciprianrx8, Solid DIY build. I applaud your thoughtfulness, clear objectives, systemic planning, and patience throughout. Your fabricator appears to have done a quality job, which you've complimented by an efficient electronics monitoring and control setup. :icon_tup:
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Yeah, well the fabricator did a very good job but on my very, very poor choice of a turbo at that time. I regret deeply having selected a T25 flange to flow all the turbine and wastegate gases... and starting to believe that EMAP readings are correct. I shall do a virtual dyno run soon enough to confirm my fears: EMAP readings are right and there is a huge pressure fighting back at the engine. If that is true, then I am stuck with it with no reasonable fix but to scrap everything I have and start over. Not happening sadly, not at this time and age.
As if that was not enough, at that time when the fab work was done that same stubbornness of mine said no to a full 3" exhaust starting from the downpipe till the end. Now I am stuck with a 3" downpipe reducing to stock OEM exhaust diameter of 2.5". The fact that I can't weld 2 scrap bits together(and I can't find anyone decent around me to help) doesn't help in the slightest, nor does the downpipe requiring a day to take off and another day to put back on. Currently looking at catback kits that may allieviate my EMAP problem even in the slightest, but at this point I don't expect miracles. I also love quietness more than I love power, so tough call to decide on a catback that flows much better but is not noisier than stock. |
Decent cat back , better intercooler, larger air filter and an external WG . Do those four things and your EMAP will plummet giving you an excellent power powerband..... IMO
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add an external wastegate where the manifold comes together at the turbo flange inlet and tie it together with the IWG canister lines so the controller works them both. Initially I was going to suggest wiring the IWG shut and using EWG only, but then thought they might be ok together if setup with the same spring pressure. I’ve no experience ever trying this though.
Then you could even let it dump to atmosphere initially before tying it in to the exhaust to see what the difference is. Which there are RX8 catbacks with 3” piping. What you can do is get one of these aircraft exhaust ball joints as shown below and have the inlet and outlet flared as a slip over joints to replace the factory reduced size donut issue. Then you only need to cut the pipes and clamp it on. A bit gimmicky, but get’s you around the welding issue. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...715ee7832.jpeg . |
"Just put a EWG there" - well that area would give nightmares to anyone knowing how to weld:
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...c982cc878c.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...6273c65ac8.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...707fb1c7dc.jpg Leaving it as a screamer pipe is out of the question as well or I'd hate even building boost. Not a fan of anything loud. If anything, equally half-assed, I could place a EWG on the runner for the rear rotor where it is closest to the downpipe: https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...6af1011ca.jpeg ...and that would work with poor results, poor flow -> boost creep on its own -> need to keep the IWG in place. I am actually surprised how good the IWG works and flows. I've had to fit a very strong spring to keep it shut at higher rpms/pressures. There is no fixing this manifold and downpipe, even taking them off the car is a nightmare in itself. |
Originally Posted by ciprianrx8
(Post 4974613)
I am actually surprised how good the IWG works and flows. I've had to fit a very strong spring to keep it shut at higher rpms/pressures.
. Several free flowing 3071 setups I've tuned really struggle to control boost and they have to hog out the WG massively just to get under 12psi ! |
Originally Posted by ciprianrx8
(Post 4974606)
Yeah, ... I regret deeply having selected a T25 flange ...
As if that was not enough, at that time when the fab work was done that same stubbornness of mine said no to a full 3" exhaust starting from the downpipe till the end. ... ... I also love quietness more than I love power, so tough call to decide on a catback that flows much better but is not noisier than stock. If you do go the T3 flange w/ 3" DP and exhaust, consider the BHR midpipe and Borla exhaust. Together they allow good power w/ a rich deep, but relatively quiet exhaust note. |
no you can just mimic the Brettus manifold in your own style; the front rotor and siamese exhaust port are piped from the front toward the rear. Just tie into those two and carry it rearward. They will be strongly biased to the wastegate. Maybe better than his even. You already demonstrated great courage, don’t let us or yourself down now
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...e5559d78a.jpeg Which btw a full 3” system will support more hp than you’re going to make with a 3076. . |
Haven't gotten to fitting any mech improvement... just wanted to see how much I can get with what I have:
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...4e9ef7cc6.jpeg This is still on a stock fuel pump, albeit one that was replaced very recently. While the airflow is there, it just doesn't feel like pulling hard enough for 13psi. Or I'm getty greedy. First in line will be changing the exhaust to a full 3" - though I will have to DIY something like a Racing Beat with twin 4" mufflers while hoping it will be quiet at all times. About upgrading the intercooler as well - will have to mount a pressure sensor on compressor outlet and measure total pressure loss from turbo to UIM. I seem to be getting 3 psi loss merely from the outlet of current IC to UIM. If the turbo is doing cartwheels pushing pressure against a wall, then a good chunk of EMAP will vanish if I can keep that flow up with less boost. Last on my list is the hardest and possibly the biggest culprint... bypassing wastegate gasses away from that tiny T25 turbo flange. Haven't found anyone yet will to take this job, can't blame them. One small improvement I've discovered is that the oem O2 sensor can be made to read a bit richer than stock calibration... ~11 instead of 11.15. Not much, but why not have it if its there. |
Originally Posted by ciprianrx8
(Post 4975339)
While the airflow is there, it just doesn't feel like pulling hard enough for 13psi.
|
That's the reading from the OEM MAF, in its factory housing(cut from original intake), with factory scaling, with factory air straightener 3cm before it and 15cm of straight tubing before straightner. Never gave me any headache apart from looking ghetto. And now I see I nearly maxed it out. Don't think I'm leaking air anywhere as LTFTs stay within +3% at all times.
So if 350 g/s of air enter this engine then they surely exit it as well, problem here may be that much of the power that this airflow would allow is stolen by restrictive IC and exhaust. Until I don't do some hardware changes, I'll never know. This is the curse of knowing, and why they say ignorance is bliss? :D |
If you nearly maxed it out but are making sub 300whp .............. id suggest it's far from an accurate reading.
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you’re overlooking the EGR effect of the excessive emap pressure
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...399e69de2.jpeg :eek: if you don’t address that soon then kiss your engine goodbye, why are you even reading it if you’re going to ignore what it’s indicating pretty much the way of most unwise people and how they create misery in their life … immagonnakeeponhammeringonit you have to understand that with a Renesis once it closes off the exhaust port then what remains is exhaust gas at almost 50 psi, that then is expanding into the intake cycle once the rotor rotates into it. That’s a lot of hot exhaust gas and honestly, it’s a wonder that poor engine didn’t go zoom-zoom-boom already. . |
I've ordered a RB catback(comes...next year :/ ) and looking to build a complete 3" exhaust starting from turbo outlet. That, atm, is my most accesible path from a fabrication point of view.
I want a 3" resonator about here: https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...d6d72f3fdf.png Anyone knows the length of that portion ? If that alone doesn't do much then a bigger IC is next. Perhaps bigger plumbing as well. It just struck me that I'm measuring boost in 2 different diameters... 2" before thr body, and 3" after thr body - of course there will be a pressure difference. :hahano: For IC upgrade, I'm looking at this, with a 3,5" core: https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...49955e0df7.jpg Hardest for last - adding an EWG somewhere. Not giving any more EMAP numbers... but that engine took even more and didn't blow up. What I wanted to know is that there is at least a hope in hell that the combo can do 350+ g/s. I'd like to try one day to measure EMAP on a stock car, with a gutted cat and stock exhaust. Thinking of tapping the secondary air pump pipe and placing a sensor there. |
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