What Happens When You Have More $ Then Sense....
 

Well in my ever increasing desire for more hp while trying to keep reliability I have bought a C02 system. It sprays CO2 onto the intercooler & I also got the part where it goes into the intake (bulb where it injects C02 into that freezes and will cool incoming air). Hopefully it will help reduce chance for detonation & increase hp. I also got a set of the Denso Irdiums with both leading & trailing being 1 step colder than the regular plugs (currently running the 1 range colder NGK's on the leading). He is putting in the boost controller in as well. I am hoping for 8 psi across the board & maybe 10 psi in race mode with the C02 on (and also getting larger injectors from RC Engineering). I'm off to Euprope for 2 weeks, so I'll post pictures & dynos when I get back

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just make sure it doesn't get sucked into the air filter or you'll end up losing power!!

Hmm, haven't heard of this before...how does it compare to water injection?

your a crazy man fanman...good luck with it and hope to see some dyno numbers and maybe a video when you get back...after everything installed do i get to test drive it again? haha

Be very careful with CO2.
Its phase is a very unstable but should be safe in this application. The one thing you don't want to do is inject liquid CO2 into the intake.
As far as spraying it across the intercooler, that should be no big deal.

If I remember correctly, the biggest problem with using CO2 to cool things is that the expansion of the liquid into gas causes the container to freeze, lowering the temperature of the CO2 itself and forcing it back into a liquid state or partial liquid state.
Make sense?

If I'm wrong, just correct me.
Ajax

It doesn't ever directly go into the intake. it's an interesting device. Imagine the 4 inch piece of pipe with a big metal bulb welded into the middle of it with two hollow metal tubes. The C02 is injected inside of these tubes & freezes the bulb thereby cooling the air that is going by. C02 is never directly in the intake. If that happens it would stall the engine. On the FMIC it sprays it onto the cooling fins. Never into the air stream going by on the intercooler. Some people (myself included back in the day) that air going into the intercooler interacts with the air coming out from the turbo to cool it down, but that is incorrect. The intercooler is an enclosed unit. The air coming in from the front of the front mount IC goes around that enclosed unit and cools it off (since outside air is much cooler than the air going through the piping into the engine), but is never pulled into the intake air going into the engine.

There are 2 types of water/methanol injection. The one that sprays water onto the IC is a similar notion, to make the incoming air cooler therby colling the air going into the engine even cooler. In this case CO2 & nitrous (where they spray it onto the IC, not into the engine)is more efficient in cooling than water & methanol, but I need to fill up C02 in a tank similar to nitrous. With water injection you can fill it up with regular water, or use vodka to increase the efficiency.

Here is a picture of the intake unit. Imagine the C02 going into the small tube on the side & freezing the bulb unit. As air passes the unit it is cooled down. C02 never comes directly into contact with incoming air. An simple example of this is when you have a cold liquid in a cup, then you grab it, on the outside of the cup it is cold even though the liquid is inside of the cup. Similar concept. Obviously it is several magnitudes of this. With air going by this freezing bulb of metal it will cool that air going into the engine (making the air more dense for more hp & reducing chance of detonation).

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...2/f3beda9f.jpg



Xdeedubbx, anytime. :D I might try to hit one of those OC meets one of these days.

is condensation dripping from the bulb a problem?

Not that I have heard of. remember condensation is caused by ambient moisture/humidity. I don't think there is that much of that in the intake coming from the turbo & intercooler.

Here are some answers from their FAQ section :

Q: Won’t CO2 deprive the engine of Oxygen and stall the engine?

A: Yes it will, but CO2 is NOT being introduced into the air stream. We are harnessing the cryogenic power of the CO2 to charge various heat sinks to cool the air and fuel charge.

Q: How does it work?

A: The Air Intake Chamber and the Fuel Bar work on the premise that gases that expand get cold. We have expansion chambers in the various components that allow this freezing to occur. From there they act as heat sinks, actually removing heat from the air and fuel. The Intercooler Sprayer simply vents CO2 on the intercooler fins to enhance the heat transfer.

Q: Does the air intake segment restrict air flow?

A: When our CryO2 Air Intake Chamber is installed properly, air flow restriction is nothing to worry about. Our Patented Cryogenic Bulb is aerodynamically shaped to eliminate any drag that could cause restriction and actually assists in drawing air over the bulb.


Hope this helps

makes a lot more sense and is a very interesting design.
I cant wait to see your results!

I don't remember where but I do recall reading a post in this forum about this type of intercooler cooling and how it actually has minimal effect--even when the coil is frosted over with ice.
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CHEAP AIRSOFT 177 PELLETS

I hope you get as much hp as you are looking for. :D
You deserve it going for a mod like that.

that's cool. i thought it just pissed onto the intercooler. how much and where from? that might be something to think about for the high compression turbo fd i'm doing.

i believe ebay sells a lot.. i searched on google and got linked to an ebay store... i think... while back...

Here's a link to a company saying the cryo2 doesn't work, BUT they're a competitor so I don't know about their findings.
I can see how the co2 could get into the air intake after spraying the intercooler IF you were stopped and had it on while staging in drag racing. If you turn it on right after you start moving, I don't think any CO2 would get into the air filter.

I'm very interested to see what you find, especially since I'm living in Texas and our high temps here.

Look at the products the company sells. Not exactly a reliable source if based upon that imho but the information they provide from their "test" is worth keeping in mind.

Cryofuzion also advertises its Cheetah product as a means to spray CO2 into another car's air intake. Call it what you will but that sounds cheap and unsportsmanlike if you ask me.

probably the only product that works for them

fanman ... Its funny that you just got that b/c i just orderer one today for my turbo 8 let me know how it goes ....

Shane

Wouldn't be surprised. I'll hold my disparaging comments about their choice of name and quality of web site. But that weird exhaust product they sell seems useless since it can't be installed prior to the baffles but needs to be 10"+ inches back from the tip. That seems to rule out most car models.

I'm curious about Design Engineering's fuel blocks. I assume those are insert in the fuel line prior to reaching the fuel rail? If so, I wonder what the install procedure is like and whether or not you need an extra run of line to make it the extra few inches after the block to the engine.

Here's the fuel block link. Click on the installation tab.

Anyone else notice they sell a purge kit that gives you the nitrous "look". That's what I call RICE!!!

Cooling the intercooler itself would work, but trying to cool an aircharge in this manner won't.

Why? Air isn't particularly good at getting rid of heat. There are a variety of devices like "ice intake" and what not that have tried a variety of methods to cool the intake charge. They do work, but the drop in temp is very minor compared to the overall cost and fabrication of the system. The main problem deals with the volume of air involved (your dealing with a small intake pipe), and the relative velocity of the air passing by. (Slow at idle, but holy crap at WOT)

The reason its more effective on the intercooler is due to the space involved. Intercoolers got a heck of a large volume to work with. The intake piping doesn't.

Most effective system I've ever seen is the ford lightnings ability to use the air conditioning to super cool the intercooler prior to a launch...now THAT works.

co2 is a really strange substance. it doesnt really have a liquid state. its either a gas, or a solid as dry ice. what you have in the bottle is highly pressurized co2, but it is still in a gaseous state. a better solution would be to charge the the bottle with nitrous, as it is in a liquid for while it is pressurized, and will provide a greater cooling effect , plus instead spraying the gas on the intercooler, it would be injected into the intake, directly cooling the air, plus adding extra oxygen to the intake charge, max benefits all the way around

Care to cite references to support your statement? I used to play paintball with CO2 tanks and we'd install anti-siphon tubes to prevent liquid CO2 from getting into the regulator. Here's a link that talks about uses of liquid CO2.
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