Stock Renesis maxed out
 

I'm a VW guy looking at buying an RX8. My google searches have turned up nothing. I see a lot of guys running the RX8 in the mid 300whp range but they only list modifications such as Forced Induction but no 'engine' modications.

On the stock motor what is its truest potential? Assuming of course that tuning has been done properly.

o.O

I read that whole thread just now and it seems to only answer the question "How much power are you able to extract from an NA Renesis?"

My question is:
"How much power am I able to extract (via any means... N2O, Turbo, etc...) before the stock motor can no longer mechanically function?"

I dont know if anyones truly answered that question yet.

lol i think people are still cautious, esmerial has a 400whp dyno, think they were claiming 500 with new apex seals but have never seen a dyno to back that.

Hmmm... So am I correct in assuming that the guy running turbos and low psi are using stock motors and producing 300 whp all on a stock Renesis?

If so that's a good power number. I'm not pipe dreaming that these are producing 500whp or anything crazy but I abolutely can not envision buying a 'sports' car that can't produce a measly 300whp on a stock 'block'.

The Apex seals are a bit like Piston rings if I am to understand this correctly. That doesn't really sound like a big headache either.

Personally I would just want to stay away from having to have any machine work done on the motor. If a person can upgrade Apex seals and push over 400whp that is awesome!

Changing the apex seals is not cheap tho...

^yeah and you gotta be meticulous about it

OK, so I can look at a long term plan of High power builds at least.

In the short term though: A T28 Turbo tuned properly on a stock Renesis should be able to produce reliable daily driven power in the 300whp range... correct?

The key there is tuned properly and it's harder to find an able rotary tuner than it sounds. Only real mod beyond the turbo and tuning is to go with either a high-flow cat or a catless midpipe and possibly upgraded ignition coils. Cats will die pretty quick once you go away from NA and coils begin getting blow outs when you start getting up around 300whp.

But 300whp is 'relatively' easy to achieve and stable with a good turbo or supercharger. It's a lot more expensive and a lot more work to get a Renesis up to there then it is to get a Vdub or just about any other piston engine.

My very small 8 valve VW was putting down about 220whp, then I had a kill tune with nitrous that would put me around 280whp... That was a light fast car.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...h_PA080001.jpg
This is a part throttle run just hours after it's completetion. Due to unfortunate circumstances rust prevailed and took it's life rendering it unsafe for high speed racing (The drivers seat floor pan fell out and the drivers side strut tower scissored as well)

I am looking for a light weight replacement in the 10K range. The RX8 seems to fit that description. The VWs are nice looking but getting one to hook at 300whp is a task in itself.

Something RWD seems to fit the bill but driving a Z28 or another 300zxTT (Had 2 now) is just not my idea of fun anymore. A Supra would be nice but my budget is rendering that incapable.

I have a friend at works who trashes the RX8 like it's the worst thing the car world ever produced... He's a reliable source imo but I think all car in stages of infancy tend to get overlooked as a being unreliable when truthfully most people are just starting to figure out what they are capable of.

I took that part of your first post to imply how much HP can you get from a non FI motor. I apologize for the link I provided. I think you might wish to follow the below thread. The creator of that thread has a good track record of getting power from RX-8's

https://www.rx8club.com/non-rotary-swaps-196/lsx-7-0-twin-turbo-engine-swap-170271/

this is without touching the inside of the engine. there are 8.8lb rotors. down form 9.3lbs stock.

225whp n/a. i've seen dynos.
500whp turbo. claimed by chris. he has put a 414whp dyno down in the past. so i dont doubt him.

MM has also yet to let us in on his max HP with satan hairdryer turbo, although im not sure it would be near 500 he seems to beat around the bush on it being over 400.

its not that the poential is not there, its the lack of RnD; our small community can only do so much in comparison to almost a century of piston experience. Not only that but asking your VW to get 300hp is only 150 hp per liter, wheras 300hp in the rotary is almost 240hp per liter

There ar a few turbo kits on here that make 330-370 rwhp and there is also a safer easier Pettit Supercharger that many people run 330 rwhp with about 220 rw lbs torque and with the SC the car gets to retain the factory redline of 9000. The turbo kits tend to die off at 7800 rpms on most kits but make 240-265 lbs or torque with the 330-370 hp. From what I've seen the people with the SC can run high 12's with a set of slicks or drag radials, the turbos I don't know, it seems like no one really drag races the turbo cars by the lack of quarter mile info.

Look up pettit racing rx-8 in youtube and you will see many of them running 13.4-13.5's on radials doing dainty launches to prevent wheel hop from 3500 rpms where the car makes no power, with slicks they could launch at 6500 which is what it takes to propel these cars out of the hole.

Take one for a test drive and you'll fall in love, I've had many faster cars including a Turbo Supra but none were as addicting as this.

I don't know what my HP is rigtht now but I pulled on a 2000-2003 lexus GS400 the other day and they make 300 hp and 325lbs torque, it even surprised me.

Our turbo kit will give you power past 8200 if tuned properly. The 414whp run was breaking up at the top because we were with old sparkplugs and extremely rich....that 414 would have been way different if it hadn't been so rich/misfiery.

Best regards,

Chris

10psi seems to be a comfortable boost pressure for the renesis
At that boost with a decent turbo you will make somewhere around 250lb/ft and 310whp

13-14 psi seems to be where people are stopping on stock internals (up till now anyway)
260lbft and 350whp

Damn that's pretty crazy... but I'm thinking 450whp is the limit. Any further, I would think you would have to do something drastic to attain any more power.

Great info from everyone, THANKS!

I think this is the direction I will head. I'm not looking to blow everyone away at every stop light.... I'm looking for a quality handling vehicle that can get up and go.

I know from a stock perspective this car wouldn't be my first choice but then again how many people out there are capable of being 'inventive' when they all drive the same car with the same bolt on modifications! hahahahaha

Anyway... I hope this will be the beginning of a long relationship between me, the Rotary motor and the community surrounding it. :)

I still have yet to see a reliable 400rwHP setup. The esmeril thread kinda went:
"414RWHP!!..rabble rabble rabble...rebuilding the engine...rabble rabble rabble... now shooting for 500RWHP"

Not saying it cant be done, but nobody is currently driving around 400RWHP turbo'ed Renesis with months of trouble free operation as such. :uhh:

$5700 is quite steep for a system that come with no management either...

20B install... I say no more

I didn't read the whole thread. What was the reason for the rebuild? I heard that they are developing new seals and have put them in to handle more than 500rwhp but I don't remember reading anything about the engine being blown.

They really didnt say. That was kinda my point :)

Keep to the facts and try not to make stuff up. There is no data to suggest that the pettit is safer easier than a turbo or that turbos tend to die off at 9K vs. the SC.:nono:

Properly sized turbos are making much more power and torque than SCs all the way up to redline.

There is opinion both ways so try not to make SC vs. Turbo type comments.

That's still a tall order because most CHRAs are spinning so fast by that time that the amount of heat they'll generate is gonna be of negative effect.

Having said that.. Whether you go SC ot Turbo if you plan on revving into 9k+ you'll probably also need a very efficient and large FMIC.

Agreed Heat is a negative effect regardless of RPM. And for a turbo it's more about airflow rather than RPM correct? So as long as it's sized with your goals in mind to flow the right lb/smin you can still have excellent top end performance. I'm not trying to get in to a detailed discussion on the topic just point out that it's important to size the turbo properly for a rotary based on airflow requirements and not think it's equivalent to a 4 cyl or small 6 cyl piston motor.

The Greddy unit runs out of breath up top because it's too small for our cars. It makes great low end boost and power though.

That's how it was with my Z32TT also, they'd get too hot.

So what's the ideal turbo for a 9-10K redline?

you need to size the cold side of your turbo around mass airflow, not rpm

If i want to make power for what im doing, i would go and rebuild the engine, upgrade the Apex Seal from Esmeril if it ever comes out lol hope it does. and then Port the engine. Then slap on a turbo and tune it. hmm fly wheel and clutch for sure haha :lol: and also bigger injectors and upgrade the fuel system and ignition.

mis pelotas son tus ohos, mi verga es tu narice.

Which will change from turbo to turbo. BUT since we're talking abotu a stock motor then the answer is...

Would you mind me asking when we said we were rebuilding the engine in order to attain more than 414whp? Or the fact that there was engine failure when generating that power on a stock engine?

The only reason we opened the fully operational engine (After a year running at 16psi, 400whp range) was because we needed to test our new apex seals...we didn't want to launch a product without testing it and I am sure people in the forum appreciate that.

I have never said you can't get to 500whp on a stock internal engine and keep it there reliably...you just cant make any mistakes in the tuning process. Once its tuned there is no reason for it to break unless you run out of gas while generating 500whp and it detonates. Regardless....and reliability aside, anything above 450whp would require higher octane fuel, built engine or not, because our compression limits the engine in that aspect. A switch to E85 is ideal since you can get it cheap at the pump...after that....even 500whp is surpass-able on stock internals.

Best regards,

Chris

I never suggested you said it caused the rebuild. I simply pointed out you never said it didnt either. Unfortunately with the few details you guys release I am given very little evidence to believe otherwise and am forced to make my own guesses as to the happenings between updates. I read that entire thread and that is the impression I got. :dunno:

Search up on this forum on some of the boosted build kits and turbo sizing. There is a ton of good information on this already published on this forum in this section.

Has anyone tried using TII rotors on the renesis to lower compresion and allow for more boost reliably??? i know there are older 13B PP's running renesis internals for higher compression so...dont mean to thread jack just trying to find alternatives for this engine......

/\ word is that rotors from other series don't work very well . Not sure on the details though - something to do with side seal position and side clearance of the rotor.

from pettit racing

________
Nexium lawyer

Maybe I ought to call around and upset them?

/\dyno or it didn't happen lol

wow,

that is a crazy silly guess.

stop trolling.. shoot us a note when you have a car..

beers :beer:

^maybe a LEVEL10 Tranny he means...

I think you'll find a few competitors that'll confirm it for me, as we go flying past....:lol2:

I fully believe Petit can have a Renesis that does about 210 at the wheels. Nothing out of the ordinary about that. The engine can easily do it.

As for TII rotors in a Renesis, you can't do it. No need to get into details again. Just trust me. Don't try it.

So with that being said when a Renny is turbo' you gotta drop what kinda gas you put in the car ? Sorry for the rookie type question but I assumed you would maintain the same type of gas if not go higher ? Is that what everyone means by it being to rich ? Once again sorry for the rookie questions

Nice bump. Don't even pay attention to that post because he is full of shit. 500WHP on Renesis is a pipe dream, hell anything north of 400WHP for any decent length of time is a pipe dream, built or not. The turbo kit his company sold was the biggest failure of any RX-8 turbokit.

Ditto. Go over to RX7Club and read the questions he posts over there. He clearly had no business trying to sell anyone a turbo kit ...