blackmagic8

Hi guys,

I am in the process of going FI but parts are expensive and hard to come by in Europe. I have done lots of searching but am looking for members recommendation and input.

I am working with a rotary specialist in france and they have suggest a custom turbo job. THey have suggested buying the racing beat manifold and then modifying this as necessary, probably looking at a 3076 for the turbo.

They have quoted me for the parts and the reason I am asking is because they seem a little expensive. I have been quoted $8000 for the work including the parts and tuning
Please help source parts (and recommend if part has not already been specified) below if you could:

- Tial do a v banded exhaust housing for the 3076 incl 3076 (quoted $2000+vat)
- Racing beat manifold (quoted $800+vat)
- 50 mm wastegate (quoted $560+vat)
- Intercooler (quoted $630+vat)

I am based in France so obviously any items would have to be able to be shipped to Europe. I appreciate your input

Talic

it would be much better to buy mm's kit which will be around $4.5k? correct me if im wrong, or even esmerils kit for around 5.5k?
then all you need to pick up is the ems/emu. cobb/hymee $600+ for mm's kit or intercepter-x $1400+ for esmerils.
if you are going custom I suggest an ebay turbo once the kit is done then change it over to a good quality ball bearing turbo.
as for manifold I suggest you make your own off of the oem manifold which is cast or buy a manifold flange from madaparts or simular.
not sure if the mms kit comes with nessary injectors but esmerils does, you can just send the injectors to kg-parts to increase their size and flow match them.
intercooler can be ebay as well as there isnt the greatest difference between brand name and ebay as long as its large enough with appropriate rows.
my suggestion is to go through the forums, look at other peoples build such as Mewnee, Brettus, Talic, Czar, Bays and anyothers you can find using the search engine for turbo.
this will give you an idea what you are into and the additional costs outside of what you listed..

blackmagic8

Thanks for the advice, however I am quite happy to go with the custom stuff my tuner is doing me. I do appreciate the advice however am looking for recommendations on the parts above (bar the manifold and turbo) and am looking for most cost effective/ best place to buy (all of them) them as the price my tuner had listed I think is quite high. I have trawled through most of the threads in major horsepower upgrades and seen what there is on offer already. Hope you guys can help

bse50

Are you sure that a 3076 will fit down there with racing beat's headers?
Aside from that, what kind of ecu are you going to use? this will tell you what kind to setup is ideal (intake, maf location etc) and what parts you may or may not need.

Charles R. Hill sells a lot of the stuff you need and, at least here in Italy, we are 100% satisfied with his international shipping costs and service.
I would tell you to go for a complete MazdaManiac turbo kit though, you can check it out on his website (www.mazdamaniac.com). The build time is long, but you will have something that is tested and problem free, plus you would get an accessport and a good tune with that.

Always rememeber to add a boost controller and some GOOD gauges to the build, so add about 5-600$ on top of that price

blackmagic8

I have factored in adding gauges - I have Defi
They are going to reflash the stock ECU and have told me they have done other FI tunes like this and I trust them. I have been advised that the v banded exhaust housing for the 3076 is smaller and easier to package but I'm no expert I am going on there judgement.
I have looked at the MM turbo which looks great however I am going with the shops custom idea.

Just really looking for the best place to acquire

- Tial do a v banded exhaust housing for the 3076 incl 3076 (quoted $2000+vat)
- Racing beat manifold (quoted $800+vat)
- 50 mm wastegate (quoted $560+vat)
- Intercooler (quoted $630+vat)

Quite a few people seem to be using an ebay intercooler. Seems like quite a bit in difference on price!

bse50

You need to know what kind of setup they are adopting and what kind of tuning they intend to do. Since they're using the stock ecu i assume that they're going MAF based.
In this case the shop need to give extra attention to the intake section.
Try and PM Charles R. Hill for those parts, minus the racing beat headers i think but they can be found here: www.racingbeat.com

I would still pick up a tested solution for that price, and the addition of an accessport as both a tuning and monitoring tool is a nice thing. It's up to you though

arghx7

Excellent idea, if it will fit. 20B engines (which have 3 exhaust port runners like the Renesis) love those Tial exhaust housings. The turbo is easier to install and you don't have to crush the manifold runners down to fit into a square turbine inlet flange. You also get more flexibility in orienting the turbo itself--it's like the difference between using a flanged wastegate (Tial 38mm, HKS 40/50mm) and a v banded Tial 44 or Tial 60mm.

But do yourself a favor: Go with the GT35! If you can fit it it will flow so much more than the 3076. The 3076 is better suited to higher boost 4 cylinder engines. The GT35 is a proven turbo on rotary applications, Rx-7's run them all the time. Get the T04E style compressor housing (scroll down, it's there) and you'll probably have an easier time getting the MAF sensor to work because it has a smaller inlet.

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...egory_Code=GRT

GT35R, $1400 US plus shipping.

http://www.mazdatrix.com/8exhaust.htm $500 or so from Mazdatrix. It is common on V8 engines to modify headers for turbo use.

Waste of money! Go with the V vand Tial 44mm.



http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...egory_Code=WGT

I use that on my Rx-7 right now. The vband makes it much easier to position the wastegate so that you can route the dump/recirculation pipe. Don't think it is a worse wastegate because it technically has a smaller size. Go with the .6 bar spring. Placement of the wastegate in the exhaust stream is important. A bad wastegate placement will impede flow and make it harder to control boost. I use the .9 bar spring on my Rx-7 and run about 1.1 bar of boost, but I have low compression rotors compared to the Rx-8's.

This could actually cost a lot more than that. If you want a good core (Garrett, Spearco, etc) you can pay that much before you even buy the piping. ATPturbo.com has high quality intercooler cores. But you can also go with ebay intercooler cores, there are mixed opinions on those. It's very important though that you buy good couplers and clamps. Vibrant Performance sells the good stuff, they are not going to fail on you. Cheap Ebay couplers, clamps, and gaskets will only cause problems.

Sounds like you have a good foundation for this setup though. My best advice is, don't cheap out on things that can leak.

bse50

actually rx7 engines are different than our 13b msp in many ways so the gt35 might not result as the best choice. Bigger doesn't always equal better.

Just my .02 , stick with the 3076 if you can fit it in there.

arghx7

^ have you actually looked at the flow maps? I was the first one on here to suggest that the 60-1 wheel would be equally or better suited for a rotary than the GT3071, and you won't see many people disagreeing with me on that.






you can see how much more air the GT35 can flow efficiently at lower boost (1.7 - 2.0 pressure ratio) than the 3076. Using an external wastegate gives you more flexibility to use larger turbos. There's a reason why the 3071 is one of the largest turbos you can get with an internal wastegate.

Use conservative ignition timing and good octane (98 or 100 RON) and you should be able to do 10-12psi minimum on that turbo. Just scale the MAF correctly. A more efficient compressor wheel means lower intake temps.

They're not as different as you think. The Renesis is very much like my 6 port 13B-EGI I had on my nonturbo Rx-7. The exhaust port design changes the exhaust plumbing and of course you don't have the overlap, but it's still the same engine architecture. The very high compression rotors means that controlling heat and using appropriate ignition timing is especially important on the Renesis.

bse50

We do agree on the last part but peripheral ports act in a different way and maybe allow to have enough space for a low mount turbo set up but with our system scaling the maf could not be the best bet and that turbo will certainly not fit there!

Talking about a top mount turbo aiming at higher hp levels that's fine and i can second your choice but for a driveability point of view i would pick the 3076.
I'm not a turbo expert so feel free to correct me!

arghx7

^ he is making a custom turbo manifold out of a set of n/a headers. he can put the turbo wherever he wants, it's not confined to the normal Greddy manifold location. I'm not sure how many people do it on Rx-8's, but on V8 engines you normally would flip the headers over and have them point towards the front of the car. After they collect you extend the pipe to wherever you want to put the turbo. And then you would weld on the Vband flange for the Tial vband turbine housing to bolt to. A Vband turbine inlet (tial turbine housing) and V band wastegate can make a big difference in fitment because they are so much easier to position than 4 bolt flanged inlets. And the worse case scenario with the MAF would be using a MAF housing and a reducer coupler to connect it to the 3" compressor inlet.

if he wants a typical Rx-8 turbo setup than yeah, buy a Greddy/BNR setup. He clearly has the resources and desire to do more custom things though. And take it from me, nobody has ever called a GT35 a laggy turbo on a rotary. It's not that much bigger than a 60-1 on the compressor side. Do you really think the side exhaust ports are that much of a handicap compared to the peripheral port engines?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Unless these guys have actually done this already on an 8 and you can talk to the owner about how well it goes and how the whole thing went for him I would be extremely sceptical . I've read too many horror stories on here about shop kit installations let alone custom builds .

arghx7

^ Yes. I think the plan is sound: convert RB header, install turbo with Vband turbine housing and T04E style compressor housing, use V banded wastegate, then fab up the FMIC and exhaust plus the other stuff. Use the AP or other solution that allows reflash of the stock ECU.

But the MAF stuff and the tuning would need to be done by someone with significant specialized knowledge, especially of high compression turbo builds and rotary particulars like trailing ignition split.

blackmagic8

This is exactly why the tial exhaust housing is being used, it should fit and your shot on that's why it's being used.

Yeah I'll look into the GT35, I'm not after 500hp, just after something unique and about 400hp. I have another car but the point would be I would still want this to be able to be a daily runner. Might have to be something I do though!

Cheers for all the other advice@ Probably go for the v 44mm wastegate. I won't be skimping on parts that can leak though!


Yeah this again is exactly what is happening

Tuner has done 8 rx8 turbo installs (maz sport, Greddy) and I've spoken to a couple of customers who seem really happy with the work. The owner is hasn't done this setup exactly before but will be doing exactly the same to his Rx8 at the same time

09Factor

It sound like the OP is looking into exactly what I'm having built at the moment.

BlackMagic8:
The RB cast stainless exhaust flange is $125 USD. Welds great and it's a very nice piece. Thats what my exhaust manifold is based on.

EDIT:

yea don't skimp on the exhaust or coponents that can leak.

blackmagic8

Yes on second thought we will just be using that exhaust flange and modifying it. Going for at least 300whp

arghx7

If you want reliability, let the turbo make the power. So if you want closer to 400 to the wheels without too much boost the GT35 is the way to go. I'd be concerned if you ran a 3076 that you would be trying to squeeze every last horsepower out of the turbo and reduce the safety in the tune/setup.

no disrespect to anyone in this thread, but don't let the armchair fabricators tell you that a GT35 will be too laggy. It won't be if you build it right.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Also have a look at the turbo Mawnee is using - built up by BNR specifically for the RX8 .
Should be perfect for your WHP goals .
His build thread
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-major-horsepower-upgrades-93/mawnees-custom-turbo-build-173808/

blackmagic8

Cheers guys. A lot of it is about what fits I have RHD as I have an import

I like the GT35 but as above

Yeah I saw what was Mawnee was using looks good. The tuner has a turbo guy so might just get him to mix and match housings with compressors.

I know I'm definitely going FI, I know I am getting my tuner to do all the work. I'm just deciding which turbo to get. I will be going for the GT35 ... if I can fit it otherwise I'll go for the 3076 and aim for about 350whp

Thanks for the input here

arghx7

Mawnee is using the same turbo I used to have on my Rx-7. Those T series turbos are not available with Tial turbine housings to my knowledge. Also, the P trim turbine wheel (used in T series) is larger than the GT30/GT35 size wheels so that would hurt response. The 60-1 compressor wheel is a little smaller than the GT35.