Meth / water injection - revisited
10-29-2010, 02:57 PM
#28
I don't remember
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W/M has been used for over 70 yrs to my miniscule knowledge for fuel conservation and a power boost, this all before SUPER boosting, draw your own conclusions. Yes I know MM, be professional and tell me to stfu. Case in point
10-29-2010, 03:27 PM
#30
The exhaust won't last long with huge heat cycles like that...
We had an exhaust fail in an endurance race a few weeks ago on an NA car.....it had shrunk an inch from the heat....it broke at the collector and we had to weld it back together there...and then section the pipe to add back the shrinkage
SS is a strange metal..........
It was ceramic coated as well...that made the welding a huge PIA....
We had an exhaust fail in an endurance race a few weeks ago on an NA car.....it had shrunk an inch from the heat....it broke at the collector and we had to weld it back together there...and then section the pipe to add back the shrinkage
SS is a strange metal..........It was ceramic coated as well...that made the welding a huge PIA....
10-29-2010, 03:29 PM
#31
I don't remember
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If fuel is still burning out the pipe "piston or rotary" when the next fuel comes in, things start to melt. There is a place between all boost and tune and lo boost and w/m. Unless ye own Mr Fusion and a Flux Capacitor, which I'm sure some here do. loloo
10-29-2010, 03:50 PM
#32
ahhhhh. Should make for nice track flame pics.
I am having difficulty (nothing new) understanding how this happened when he used the smallest jets (60 ml) and 150psi pressure system?
No doubt w/m is not just a bolt it up and go mod. You even have to start thinking of lamba instead of the good ole a/f. For me that is a big deal
I hit about 78-80 lambda with my set up.
My end of the straight speeds are the same with it or without it. ???
OD
I am having difficulty (nothing new) understanding how this happened when he used the smallest jets (60 ml) and 150psi pressure system?
No doubt w/m is not just a bolt it up and go mod. You even have to start thinking of lamba instead of the good ole a/f. For me that is a big deal
I hit about 78-80 lambda with my set up.
My end of the straight speeds are the same with it or without it. ???
OD
10-29-2010, 05:57 PM
#34
You Dumbass!!!
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Two points.
For those who don't realize, MM Posted those stats because hes obviously moved on to something better. What exactly... the world may never know.
Secondly, wasn't there some cleansing benefit to W\M Injection? Carbon cleansing.
For those who don't realize, MM Posted those stats because hes obviously moved on to something better. What exactly... the world may never know.
Secondly, wasn't there some cleansing benefit to W\M Injection? Carbon cleansing.
10-29-2010, 10:38 PM
#36
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Interesting finds Jeff. I guess we will play around with that 08' we are finishing. If you have the coin no doubt race gas is better. However I have run as high as 29psi on pump with water/alcohol injection. Car lasted for 3 years like that...
Last edited by 1Revvin7; 10-29-2010 at 10:40 PM.
10-30-2010, 08:42 AM
#37
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I will give up my w/m when you pry its button out of my cold dead fingers.
Juan, per dyno did not lose power with the total of 160 cc/hr nozzles?
Wouldnt adding more fuel also mean that carbon build up would be more likely?
Good discussion--- but i have always thought that w/m was to help insure my octane level was ok? When you are pumping your gas (lol) you really dont know what octane you are getting. Then you add ethenol..... now if you just run straight ethernol
How do the egt's rise, but the power goes down? That seems contradictory?
OD
Juan, per dyno did not lose power with the total of 160 cc/hr nozzles?
Wouldnt adding more fuel also mean that carbon build up would be more likely?
Good discussion--- but i have always thought that w/m was to help insure my octane level was ok? When you are pumping your gas (lol) you really dont know what octane you are getting. Then you add ethenol..... now if you just run straight ethernol
How do the egt's rise, but the power goes down? That seems contradictory?
OD
Just run 75 methanol / 25 nitromethane in the spray tank
Keep spare spark plugs....
The more nitro you add to the methanol, the leaner the A/F "acts" due to the Lambda of gas,methanol and CH3NO2 combining. It's also nice to see ice forming on the intake...
10-30-2010, 09:58 PM
#38
ha! I am not ready for that
116 octane is about $10 a gal? When you can find a fresh supply---or you can keep 50 gallon drums in your garage?
No doubt more fuel going boom= more power--ethanol cars can do this. Trick is keeping the explosion/burn in the right place?
T ruefully after my last track session in which i used a little over a gallon in a 20 min run--i got to thinking about doing this a different way.
That run used about 5 gallons of gas which means my w/m was injecting at at 20% of my total fuel supply by weight?
To much?
Hmmmmm--more work to do.
OD
116 octane is about $10 a gal? When you can find a fresh supply---or you can keep 50 gallon drums in your garage?
No doubt more fuel going boom= more power--ethanol cars can do this. Trick is keeping the explosion/burn in the right place?
T ruefully after my last track session in which i used a little over a gallon in a 20 min run--i got to thinking about doing this a different way.
That run used about 5 gallons of gas which means my w/m was injecting at at 20% of my total fuel supply by weight?
To much?
Hmmmmm--more work to do.
OD
10-30-2010, 11:28 PM
#39
I don't remember
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LMAO
It's all about where ye going with your car. I will go lo boost and a W/M addition. It will be for me. Ye gonna push the edge? All fuel and tune fer sure, MM is da man in here in this case.
But to say I'm removing all W/M from builds is a misnomer. Apologies MM,, be more direct.
It's all about where ye going with your car. I will go lo boost and a W/M addition. It will be for me. Ye gonna push the edge? All fuel and tune fer sure, MM is da man in here in this case.
But to say I'm removing all W/M from builds is a misnomer. Apologies MM,, be more direct.
10-31-2010, 09:43 AM
#40
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If you use 50/50 water/methanol than the total added fuel was 10%, any water injected is not fuel, but coolant.
10-31-2010, 11:21 AM
#41
Great thread, so much to learn....
For all you guys who are pouring out knowledge and experiences with this stuff, realize that for every person who posts in a thread like this, 10 more of us are just reading and learning on the sidelines about tuning and our engines. So thanks....
For all you guys who are pouring out knowledge and experiences with this stuff, realize that for every person who posts in a thread like this, 10 more of us are just reading and learning on the sidelines about tuning and our engines. So thanks....
10-31-2010, 01:13 PM
#42
np dude we all started somewhere.
Rote dont you get your percentage by weight? You cannot discount the space that water is taking up---right. I hear you about the amount of fuel I added, but I am thinking about only injecting half as much per weight.
As long as my track charge temps stay under control.
And that is another question---What range of charge temps are the best?
Where does charge temps become too high?
I am speaking of the temps after the maf and after boost (for us sc guys).
Since my charge temps are post maf and s.c. the iat really is not coming into play.
OD
Rote dont you get your percentage by weight? You cannot discount the space that water is taking up---right. I hear you about the amount of fuel I added, but I am thinking about only injecting half as much per weight.
As long as my track charge temps stay under control.
And that is another question---What range of charge temps are the best?
Where does charge temps become too high?
I am speaking of the temps after the maf and after boost (for us sc guys).
Since my charge temps are post maf and s.c. the iat really is not coming into play.
OD
05-24-2011, 04:34 AM
#43
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On the last turbo car that I did a before/after comparison, the car went from 320 HP to 290 or so when the smallest jet was used with a turn-on point of 10 PSI or so.
IIRC, on one of the ~280 HP cali cars, the power only dropped about 7 to 10 with a 7 PSI turn-on and small jet.
My own car wont stop misfiring until the meth is essentially turned off. I removed it from the car today.
Sustained load is exactly where the meth is at its worst. I think its only useful application would be to have it turn on when you are exceeding your tune in some way. Maybe over-boost or something.
BTW - meth is NOT an "octane boost" in the strictest sense. Though it has a higher octane, it has a significantly lower fuel value and higher mix ratio.
IIRC, on one of the ~280 HP cali cars, the power only dropped about 7 to 10 with a 7 PSI turn-on and small jet.
My own car wont stop misfiring until the meth is essentially turned off. I removed it from the car today.
Sustained load is exactly where the meth is at its worst. I think its only useful application would be to have it turn on when you are exceeding your tune in some way. Maybe over-boost or something.
BTW - meth is NOT an "octane boost" in the strictest sense. Though it has a higher octane, it has a significantly lower fuel value and higher mix ratio.
ok, I think is crystal clear the case of water injection and loss of power.
However I have two questions
The car is the following
Renesis Turbo @ 12 psi making 320bhp (at the crank). The questions are the following:
1- Running Water Injection (no ECU tunning ) on a very high ambient temps. I am talking about 104 F ambient temps on hot countries on summer etc. What do you think? Lose or gain power using water injection on 104 F ambient temp?
2- What about Fuel Consumption? Is there any negative or positive effect on fuel consumption using water injections
The questions concern only turbo renesis at 12psi making 320bhp
05-31-2011, 02:07 PM
#44
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wait...guys? ....guys? dammit...everybody left already you say...a year late eh?... lol
Im def gonna run water meth in the summer for a greater factor ofsafety ...i wonder if my engine would have gone boom if the w/m had been operational at the time...
02-05-2014, 09:31 PM
#45
So a few years go by and I start running more and more boost .... up to 17 psi now. After getting a few pings with a slight leanout (mid to high 11s) and chatting with 'the Wird' I decided to hook up my W/M system .
Now running around 270ccs switching on at around 12psi . Have kept AFRs around 11 and noticed no drop in power or increase in EGTs after several months of operation with numerous tests .
I'm just now wondering about what efffect W/M might have on the lubrication/cooling of the apex and side seals .
Does it wash away the lubricant or does the charge cooling effect have a positive benefit ?
Anyone got any thoughts/experience to share on this ?
Now running around 270ccs switching on at around 12psi . Have kept AFRs around 11 and noticed no drop in power or increase in EGTs after several months of operation with numerous tests .
I'm just now wondering about what efffect W/M might have on the lubrication/cooling of the apex and side seals .
Does it wash away the lubricant or does the charge cooling effect have a positive benefit ?
Anyone got any thoughts/experience to share on this ?
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02-05-2014, 09:57 PM
#46
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I was planning to use W/M for my build regardless of the effects of power loss, coz let's face it, engine alive is way better than go boom. Still I've seen 8s run on W/M without power loss. I just want to know if this is an effect of not using modified uncapped stock injectors.
02-07-2014, 07:33 AM
#49
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So a few years go by and I start running more and more boost .... up to 17 psi now. After getting a few pings with a slight leanout (mid to high 11s) and chatting with 'the Wird' I decided to hook up my W/M system .
Now running around 270ccs switching on at around 12psi . Have kept AFRs around 11 and noticed no drop in power or increase in EGTs after several months of operation with numerous tests .
I'm just now wondering about what efffect W/M might have on the lubrication/cooling of the apex and side seals .
Does it wash away the lubricant or does the charge cooling effect have a positive benefit ?
Anyone got any thoughts/experience to share on this ?
Now running around 270ccs switching on at around 12psi . Have kept AFRs around 11 and noticed no drop in power or increase in EGTs after several months of operation with numerous tests .
I'm just now wondering about what efffect W/M might have on the lubrication/cooling of the apex and side seals .
Does it wash away the lubricant or does the charge cooling effect have a positive benefit ?
Anyone got any thoughts/experience to share on this ?
When you say you didn't notice a difference in power was this the butt dyno? You probably won't be able to notice a difference of 10rwhp.
