Interesting Find: RX8 Turbo with Greddy Emanage Map Tuning...
 

Hello,

I am the owner of a Dyno tuning shop in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
I had a customer with an RX8 Turbo running at 6-7psi come in and dyno his car. He is running the Greddy Emanage software and interface on a laptop.
I will be tuning it, so I took a log of the dynorun (in the Emanage software).
I then got a copy of the Emanage software from him, and of the dynorun log. I am not too familiar with the software, and wanted to look at the data before I tuned it.
Below are the graphs from the dynoruns we did on a DynoJet dyno (very accurate).

https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...chmentid=55017
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...chmentid=55018

First things to look at is the Air/Fuel ratio. Look how extremely rich the car is running. This car should be at around 11.8 all the way through the run. This car is just pegging out the rich meter (no wideband reads below 10.0 ratio), and look how it is killing the top end power, starting at 6200-6300rpm. Look how irratic the power is. We did 5 dynoruns (doing testing, logging data, etc), and they were all 99% consistent. Everytime at 6200rpm it's HP and TQ are just breaking up. The 2 graphs are at the bottom.
-The map it is using is the Greddy Map, named: US_TK_RX8_12_30_04(new)_.GSC
When we applied the "updated" map from June, the run was not as good, but A/F was exactly the same.
-Now, when I take a look at the Emanage software, it is not showing the car is EVER at 100% wide open throttle.
-When I pull up the log, here is what it is showing all the way through the run.
-Dyno run done in 4th gear, flooring it 100% at 2,000 rpm.
Here is the data:

RPM --- Throttle %

2000-- 20%
2500-- 40%
3000-- 70%
3500-- 90%
4000-- 90%
4500-- 80%
5000-- 80%
5500-- 80%
6000-- 70%
6500-- 70%
7000-- 60%
7500-- 60%
8000-- 70%
8200-- 50% :eek:
last rpm we have WOT data on is 8200rpm, and I was still holding pedal to the floor.
I have dyno'ed 400+ cars at my shop, so just to get the idea out of your head this thing was 100% to the floor. BUT, the data shows different.

-Has anyone else with the Emanage software and taken a log of the dynorun??
What you need to do is pull up Emanage, then load the map you are using. Now, go over and do the data analysis, and open the log file. Then when you click on the graph data, it will show you in the map where it is (inj %, throttle Pos %, etc). Choose throttle position.

-I didn't do the install work, so I am going to recommend to the customer to have the shop check and make sure it is going WOT. Are these cars fly-by wire or are they throttle cable fed? That would answer that part anyways. If fly by wire it is 100% software controlled.

-If anyone is going to turbo, definitely get it on the dyno. The cars really MUST be tuned to get everything out of the turbo kit. I can't wait to see what I can get out of this RX8, because the tuning is way off at the moment!

If anyone else has this setup, please look and see what your throttle position is from a log, if this is accurate than there is definitely something amiss. If your log doesn't look like this, it may have something to do with TPS, not sure at the moment.
Thanks!

are you sure you had good signal pickup from the coils. thats always my first question on Dynojet runs as they seem to often have problems with this. It can result in the jaggety graphs like what you have.

oh and looking at your graphs it also seems clear that the tertiary intake ports did not open. combined witht he rich conditions= no power increase from 6500 on up. although it looks like you got a little power back when the vdi opened.

Yes. It's not a Dynojet problem, its a Rotary problem, & why dyno's have problems picking up RPM with rotaries. No other cars have Trailing & Leading wires, which send irratic readings. But, there is a way around it, and I am using it. There is a certain wire you have to go around. It's the third wire back from the front (just so anyone going to dyno knows...). That only applies to this engine though, just fyi. An Rx7 will be a different wire.

My dyno is a carbon copy of this one. Exactly the same, Rich from 2-3.5K then ok from 3.5 - 6K and the pig rich after than to redline. I am in the 10 AFR when rich and my HP curve stops at 195 HP after 5.8K. I get the spikes after that too..

Hope we can figure this out soon..

Was the throttle calibrated in the E-Manage Settings, Parameter Settings, Throttle Settings first?

Unfortunately, this is nothing new. All of the rx8's that have been dyno'd since March have looked like this. I'm going in for a dyno tune in two weeks, I'm sure myne will look the same, I can feel the huge loss of power at 6k.

Once I get my Dyno chart I'll have something to bitch about and will be calling Greddy. Until then I feel I don't have to much to stand on other than telling him some peoples cars on the internet aren't dynoing right and myne feels like that. Someone with a chart should really call sooner!

In the Greddy Emanage support tool, recalibrate the throttle position of the car before running. Make sure it successfully plots 100% when you push the pedal all the way. It takes a few tries to get it right.

Also, do a realtime trace map to check if the yellow runner actually reaches the 100% throttle cells when you push for full throttle. Otherwise, Emanage will not make the necessary adjustments for 100%, instead it will pick up adjustment instructions off of the 50 - 90% cells.

You're tuning it and you don't know how Emanage works? Isn't that risky when you're about to tune a Turboed high-compression engine?

As I recall, lots of people on the CZ forum were getting less than WOT even after recalibrating the throttle. But, the maps for the turbo kit are independent of throttle position, aren't they? I think they are only RPM and boost dependant. So that probably doesn't explain your crappy results.

BTW, look for MazdaManiac'z map. Its tuned leaner up there. When I get my GReddy, I'll start with the stock map just to makes sure I don't run leaner than others. Then, I'll run MazdaManiac's map and use it as a starting point from which to tune.

No. Every tuner was born with the knowledge of every system, no one had to learn it :rolleyes: I was just unlucky I guess and wasn't born with the knowledge, so I am having to learn :D

When are you tuning this? I would love to see the results.

TulsaDyno,

Here is a very interesting post about the electronic throttle in this car. This may explain why the computer never reports 100% WOT. According to this post the gas pedal only needs to be depressed to ~85% for the ECU to command WOT, so jamming the pedal to the floor is the same as depressing it to 85%. If the WOT signal is really the reporting the PPS signal vice the actual command to the throttle you may never see 100%. What signal is being measure by E-manage to report WOT?

I think you will find some helpful data in this post.

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...ronic+throttle