hold up... i want egt's too.

alright, we've all seen "stage 3", "stage 8", "stage 9 thousand" whatever around... i can't stand this shameless marketing ploy designed to lure in guys who just plain don't know any better.

with this porting, i think i'll call it mild and aggressive, where the mild will be not hacking through the coolant passage to retain the original integrity of the port wall. aggressive will be hoggin' that shit out and having the hole patched up by my homeboy at the welding shop. i believe that once it's welded, it's a done deal and will be as strong as the original, but since it hasn't been tested yet, please take that as ONLY my belief, and definately not fact, the word, truth, undeniable, etc. etc.

EGT's? Explain please?
Exhaust gas temps?

exactly. i'd like to know how they will be effected.
since we're focusing on getting the gas out more easily and not solely on getting more air in, i don't think the afr's will change to any great extent...maybe somewhere between 2 and 3/10ths of a point to the lean side--which is fine considering how rich these things run to begin with.

Something about this thread seems a little....... sticky. :D

Will you please photo-document the process, or at least the final porting for educational purposes guitarjunkie? This thread needs to be dipped in gold and preserved for all time. Hats of to whomever has the balls to participate in this pioneering effort. Look forward to all the dyno info!

Ah, thanks, I wasn't sure what you meant, good luck with your project. Can't wait for the dynos. :D

Since the stock exhaust ports are so restrictive, I can see why aftermarket exhaust only add 3-4 hp. Really with the flow so bottled up by those two 90 degree turns in the motor, any change to the flow characteristics beyond them are trivial to performace. So not only will changing these ports allow the motor to make more power, they should also allow an higher flowing exhaust to do its job and make even more power, yes? Say 8-10 hp for an exhaust on a ported motor.

i think you hit the nail on the head there s13

ideally, i'd like to see a bone stock setup, then stock+ full exhaust,
ported/stock exhaust, then ported/ full exhaust.

i think that 8-10 hp gain will be increased by quite a bit. maybe not the 60 bolt on hp like on the fc's, but enough to give you an extra kick in hte butt when you're on it.

btw, i'm honored to be nominated for a sticky.

i'd like to thank the academy :D

Hahaha. I think it's great that we have another DIY tuner doing somethine awesome like this. Thanks for sharing all of your info, it's really appreciated by all the tuners out there.

i do stuff from home, but since cars are my sole source of income (and rotaries are 90% of that), i like to think of myself as just a little bit more than a diy'er. thanks for the compliment though!

Well can you recommend a place good for a dyno in our area? I'll make my way there as soon as I can. I know GT Motorsports has one but I've received mixed opinions about that place. It's not really that big of a deal getting precise numbers for my car cause all we're looking for is the difference before and afterward. Also maintaining consistent situations and stuff like that. Just let me know of a place and I'll be there. Lata.

P.S. It should only take me half an hour. 2 speeding tickets in the last year to prove it. hehe jk

Also I have a dig camera so I'd supply the pics of the whole process.

Was not aware of that, but that makes your research all the more credible(not knocking the DIYers, we love you guys too)

thanks,
but some people make breakthroughs in fields totally unrelated to their work. rotorgod sounds like he knows more about porting than i do, and i do it all the time...he's a real estate agent (i think that was it). just goes to show anyone can do anything.

i've found that the only real difference between diy'ers and professionals is the presentation and clarity in the explanation. the very best automotive i've ever seen has come from garages--not big name shops. i'm always reading books and studying. i like to think i'm really good at what i do, but i still learn new stuff all the time. that's why i'm taking a more objective approach for doing the renesis motor.

I hope it all works out, and I'm glad that you're working to better the performance of this awesome car. It must be pretty a pretty neat job, I'd love to do something like this, but therein lies the dilemma, I'm not too good when it comes to tools, or building things or anything like that.

snoochi,
i found out yesterday there's a dyno right by my house!! only $55 an hour too. i've got a new shop! one thing is the numbers will be slightly lower due to the 4500 foot elevation. where we do it isn't important, just as long as we do it at the same place after too.

how quick do you wanna do this?

This is very cool- thanks guitarjunkie for contributing your time to this cause. I'm very eager to see the results... :D

well i gotta be honest...i'll donate the first one to research, then i have proof of hp gains so i can start charging. it's like an investment for me, so i'm not as noble as it seems :D

It'd need to be a monday or wednesday. I work 15 hour days on sun/tue/thur/fri/sat. In fact I'm at work right now letting everyone else work cause I'm so hyped about this. I just gotta let my professor know I'm not going to class and everything should be cool. Lemme know if you can do it next monday or wednesday...

I could "in theory" be able to do it another day, I'd have to do some major getting people to cover me. I'd just prefer not going that route.

i usually don't know what's going on until it's already happened...
so gimma a call when you wanna do it and we'll get the dyno done. if you can get an egt in the car before then, that'd be great!

after the dyno run, all i need is the irons and we can knock out the porting in one day. i've already got the templates made.

I do have to comment on one thing guitar' (I play too btw), I disagree with cutting into the water jacket and then rewelding it up. I strongly believe that it is ported too far at this point. This is also the large turn radius of the port and this area actually doesn't need to be as sharp or deep. The port does not need to be so large that it cuts into this. The timing will get too big at this poit anyways. That would be opening the exhaust ports way too early. Too early is bad for low end power. While this seems like a good compromise remember that the lack of port overlap hurts top end power. Don't cancel yourself out. Don't take the exhaust ports down any lower than the bottom of the runner. This is getting too crazy on the opening timing. We need to be more focused on port velocity over port volume. This is the whole point of movig the exhaust port down even with the bottom of the runner. It is a big turbulent wall right now. It would be one thing if the exhaust sleeve matched with the stock port openings but they don't. We are just smoothening flow but trying not to go any larger than necessary on the ports. They are already 50% greater in area than a stock 13B exhaust port.

The intake side should only be cleaned up. Maybe close the primaries a little later but just focus on the runner to port short turn radius transition. I actuall fill the back of the port in thus area with epoxy to help accelerate flow through here. I don't recommend this to everyone unless they know the proper preparation and epoxy to use.

I'll see if I can find a picture of a Renesis housing to draw where the timing marks should be enlarged to.

Where and how would I do the egt? Ima probably take my car into the dealership on monday and have them fix stuff and get the M-flash. Can they do it?

Edit: RG, thanks for the input, want this to be as good as possible for ma baby.

Don't take the exhaust ports down any lower than the bottom of the runner.

you end up cutting through the water jacket BEFORE you get it even with the port runner!! i really didnt' open them up that early, i think i just made it seem that way with statements like.."i hogged through that shit" i'm really quite a bit more conservative than i lead on. you've got some great advice though. i think i'm right on this one, but i will absolutely not shun your advice! i'd like to do 2-one each way and compare them side by side. since most of your power is generated in the first half of the expansion cycle, i don't think advancing the port opening will have any noticably adverse effect on low end (keep in mind i said THINK--i could still be wrong), and if it does, i think it will more than make up through improved scavenging through the midrange and top end. wish we had the time and money--we'd probably make a good pair for opening a shop.

so if we go through the water jackets or not is gonna be snoochy's choice--it's his motor. i think the results will be just fine either way though.

the fastest reacting egt i've ever seen is the defi d gauge.

maybe in the exhaust manifold, right after the last port. i would say about 6 inches down, but i think it's got a cat right there and that may throw the readings off... ummm anyone got a better idea on where to stick that thing?

mine's 6 inches after the turbo...oh yea, you guys don't have turbos. my bad ;)
my motor goes brap brap brap :D

Well what do you have to say to that RG?

I'm mega postwhoring in here but once it starts including my car I'ma postwhore as much as I want. Also did you want to do the true duel exhaust set up that RG was talking about? We could just tinker with porting first if you want pure dyno numbers and maybe go true duel later? I don't know what this involves labor and materials wise I'm just throwing ideas out there.

Also how do I measure the egt?

If you and RG come to an agreement on something I'll need to change my pants I'll be so happy. I just want this to work out in the end for the best.

And will this all help my car's lifespan cause effectively my car has to try less to perform it's normal duties? If so I'm sure me speeding all the time will negate it but it's good to know.

i don't think it will do anything to the lifespan, and not much for the efficiency, but possibly better fuel economy...but then again, possibly worse. one thing though, i'm sure it will make more power.

rg and i aren't exactly disagreeing, i think i've seen a little more in reguards to the coolant passage because i've got it right here in front of me. if he were here, he'd see it too and i'm sure we'd have a very similar, if not the same, opinion.

just so you guys get an idea of how thin that wall is--think about the intake ports on the fc's...it's even thinner than that.

you know what i really like about this is we're both voicing opinions in a respectful way--and even if we do disagree on anything, we're not stepping on eachothers toes or trying to cut eachother down. try getting that on some of the other forums!! :D

Man try getting that on this forum sometimes. No j/k. This whole thing is awesome and I'm very lucky to be a part of it. What do you think about the dual exhaust also?

i think he's got an awesome idea there and i'd definately like to try it--just not on this round. i think that may be just a little more work than i want to do for free. lol

Here is a crude outline of where I'd want to run the exhaust port to. How are you hitting water if you aren't going any larger than this. Take a picture of it somehow.

because the coolant passage actually does this:

I got ya now. I would probably only port it up to that point and not past. spend alot of time cleaning up the inside edges. I'd do this on the first one and then maybe get more extreme in the future. I'll probably just have to spend the money and buy a housing so I can port one and make my own templates.

this is actually a tad bigger than the actual port... keep in mind i port better than i draw.

if you notice the "red zone", that's where the leading edge of the rotor passes by the port. i kept material there to make sure the side/corner seal junction was supported throughout its journey through the engine.

hope this clarifies it a little more.

when you bevel the edge, you can actually get a pretty hefty radius on it--just can't do much along the vertical axis without hacking into it. seriously, it's about 1.2-1.5mm thick...optimistically

so the port ended up a bit narrower than i'd like, but i'd rather have the side/corner seal supported. taking that corner out wouldn't be any big hp improvement over the way it is, so better safe...

Alright this all sounds awesome. Inluding being safe with the side seal because that seems to be the part where everyone doesn't wanna screw with. I was just tossing ideas out there before. But, if this porting works out well I'd be more than willing to pay for the true duel exhaust of course :D

any possibility of making it up to my house this weekend to look at the one that's almst done and maybe shoot off some pics?

I work later today 4pm-10pm, 2marow 6:30am-2:30pm (Nordstrom)/3:00pm-10:00pm (Pick Up Stix) and Sunday from 10am-10pm..ahh the life of a student trying to afford gas. I could go up there saturday night if you have enough lighting that late, or monday I'm outta class around 1ish and I have the rest of the day free so we can try and do that? I'm sure we'll get something soon.

Nice information. Keep up the work!

Vince

i think we'll start a new thread once it gets under way--just so people that wanna see don't have to flip through hundreds of posts...

i'm expecting good results. nothing dramatic, but a nice solid gain across the rpm band.

That sounds good to me, considering we can't get a lot of the across the band power. Most of the bolt-ons add a few hp to the top end, after 7k rpm or so. Good luck.

i'm looking for solid, duplicatable results as opposed to just the end number.

Man I can't sleep I so want this like yesterday

... that makes two of us Snoochie Boochies! :D

i'll warn the rest of you that if this pans out, look for the porting cost to be relatively high--as it's about 5 times the work of the rx7 motors!

but ther than some very minor cleanup work, the first one is DONE! :D

can not wait to see the dyno results.

Cannot wait to see some track results. :D

I can understand not wanting to totally punish your car though. Isn't there some sort of standard 5-60 "rolling start" test the magazines do? Basically so you don't trash your clutch and transmission.



(and Vince, weren't you banned?)

it's be great to get all the performance specs with and without the porting. i think the most important thing of all is going to be snoochies butt-dyno. how does it feel? how do you like it? etc etc.

i guess time will tell. as long as i've got nothing to do when he drops the irons off, it should be a one day turnaround-maybe 2. now it may take up to a week if i'm busy, but i'm anxious to get it done ASAP!!!

Yup yup. Should I get my brother or someone to drive up with me just in case I need to leave it there over night or for an extended period?