beware fuel fittings
 

well this forum/family is all about sharing info/problems solutions right?

I blew my engine on the back straight at Road Atlanta this w/e because the fuel line that connects the main fuel rail to the apv rail, had a connector(the little plastic ring thing) that allowed that little half moon shaped spacer between the connector and fuel line to fall out. This caused a loss of fuel (duh) and leaned # one rotor out.
I was doing about 6k in 6th gear when i saw the a/f's go bad and the engine suddenly developed the skip of death. Too high of a load on the car to survive. Happened before i could do anything.
When I limped to the pits and lifted the hood there was pools of gas on the lim and steam/vapors was coming upward from that area!!!! Holy Batman:SHOCKED:
In troubleshooting it all--i found out what happened.:mad:

SO BEWARE YOUR FUEL LINE FITTINGS--MAKE SURE THEY ARE FITTING WELL--YOU MAY EVEN WANT TO USE A ZIP TIE, RACING WIRE ETC TO SECURE THE DAMN THINGS.
This may be the end of the road for me--no final decision yet. Damn Gremlins.
Just wanted to share this experience so maybe it will not happen to someone else.
olddragger

At least id didn't catch on fire :SHOCKED:...

You have way too much blood sweat and tears into this car Denny.....Put in another engine and rock on :)

Yea, was gonna say. Lucky she didn't spark.

Huge presence in the RX8 community, you can't just walk away because of a little engine destruction!

This sucks OD but i agree with all of the above. You're a great contributor and simply can't give up because of a blown engine!
Take Charles, offer him some drinks and see what happens!

For gods sake get another engine!!!!! Don't toss away your pride and joy because of a little thing like this.

Wait... 6k in 6th gear? That's mighty fast...

Think of it this way - better to blow a motor than crash !!!!!

Ugh, that sucks... really sorry to hear that OD.

Don't leave man. Just a part of racing.

Damn Denny, sorry to hear man. We are all like family here, I smell a rebuild very soon. Hell, I'll make the drive down to help, I love pulling engines! Take Ray up on whatever he has to offer.

ouch..sucks to hear the news..hope you stick around no matter what your decision is...

Sorry to hear that. As others have said, you have been a huge asset to this community and I hope to fix it and stay with us :)

Low mile motors go for about 1k on the 'bay......

A real rotarian doesn't let a few tip seals discourage them!

S

That sucks OD ...surely ruined your day :tear:

..couple questions....I have noticed after decoupling and coupling the gas lines myself that those blue & red lock collars 'loosen up' .... so wondering how many times and how recently had you had the fittings apart before this accident? ... IOW was it something you had just played with or was it something taking a long time to happen?...was the little 'lock collar' intact or had it come off when you discovered leaking gas? I tried using a zip tie once on them but couldn't make it stay on, no real place to grip there...

oh damn F that sorry to hear about it. I wouldn't turn my back just yet you are very well one of the most deep rooted members on this forum.

Wow, that sucks man. KG parts fuel rails with braided lines will keep you from doing that even if on the OEM pump and in-tank system, it can be adapted without too many issues.

Hope you get it back up and running without too many funds.

Chris

Well even my daughter is begging me not to give up and all yall's responses----well--thanks folks. Maybe not-- I am cooling off a little and beginning to realize that its not just a car anymore?
I remember clearly the week before I left for vietnam in 1969 my Dad told me not to sale the car I had at the time (55 chevy with 396 aluminum heads etc etc ) but I didnt listen to him and to this day I wish I had. This may be the same situation?? I need to chill and think.
Meanwhile it looks like a Rick E engine from Mazmart is going in her. Paul selling me one.
The fuel clips will have two small holes drilled in them so race wire or small zip ties can secure them, thats for sure. It is tempting to change out the fuel rails and put ss lines on her --but not just yet.
I am going to buy NEW clips for everything, for sure and secure them.
These clips have been in place for a good while.
Mystery. But could have been worse.
again txs for yalls support here.
may start a thread on the install.
OD

That's good to hear Denny!!!

So... Is this the first S/C engine failure in the club?

Might not be related to being blown, but hah :)

Glad to see you're stickin' around man !!

That's awesome you have had a chance to sit back and think about it. I sold my 82' 280ZX after some fuel system problems and I have always regretted it.

Side note, my dad went to Vietnam in 69' too.

Replacing the locks will help a lot, i think that your unlucky experience will teach to a lot of guys with older rx8s a lesson. Let's check those clips! I know i replaced them and used some extra tape after i replaced my fuel pump. Now i will have a look inside the hood as well!

Rick Engman engine... that's a lot of love!

sorry to hear that OD!
don't sell your car, it doesn't cost much to fix it.

Sorry to read your motor blew. Like everyone else thinks, rebuild it!

No...

Also--yall correct me if i am wrong---I seem to remember somewhere that there is a little plastic piece that fits under the bolts on the main fuel rail? Is that right? Am I wrong?
If there is one then would that change the fitment angle to the injectors?

After I got my fuel rails and lines off, i put them back together. I was amazed at the line movement allowed on the rail --it will pull back and forth. Some movement is expected--but i also noticed that the little fitting that came out on mine ---after moving the line back and both a little---it actually turned to a angle and you could see how easily it could come out! Sum bitch.
I notch the connector lock ring so that a plastic tie would fit AND on the connectors (2)that have those little spacers I placed a small Plastic tie around it. That seemed to cure it all.
These gas lines move around some with the fuel pressure being on and off.
Converting to ss would be a pita.

The plastic block you are thinking of is the air distribution block to the oil nozzles

It acts like a spacer for the fuel rail as well..and it is at the wrong angle and placement if you omit it...the P injectors won't seal properly

You are right about the fuel injectors moving...but that isn't a problem..they are basically suspended by the grommet on the bottom and the o-ring in the fuel rail....that is normal for most injected cars. If you take it apart a couple of times I would recommend changing those parts..they are cheap insurance...and the grommets tend to get hard and don't seal well after they get old ( from the heat)

There is room to run stainless lines and billet fuel rails...there are a few problems...but they will fit

Another way you could secure the connectors would be to use heat shrink on them after they are installed...then you would have to cut the heat shrink off to get the clips to release to remove them again

thanks Dan---yep have the one on/close to the oil nozzles.
i am going to look around for something that hopefully will "seal" better? The apv's are good.
And yep i already had replaced the grommets and caps. some of the caps were brittle and cracked--the o's were ok. Replaced them anyway.
OD

This will to "upgrade" something while you're at it means that you have already made the right decision of keeping the car? :)

Giorgio

yea---guess so--i cooled off. i still aint happy:)
OD

e beer for you!

1) Losing a motor to the failure of a support system sucks. Ask me how I know. x3
2) The injectors should be able to swing freely around their installation axis
3) The red and blue clips on the fuel system are pretty much failure-proof. It is always user-error if they fail. However, it is pretty easy to put them in wrong, so I sympathize. A good, solid pull will verify the connection and make it impossible for it to fall apart.

Drop another motor in and keep going.

thats just it--they were in correctly---there was a total of no less than 4 different knowledgeable people at road atlanta that looked at them. i probably should have replaced them before now, but i thought they were not a problem either. Did yall see the pic of Z__see below car---same thing happened to him except his caught fire. I was lucky or unlucky depending on how you look at it. Ask my wife she has a different view.:pfanndina

yep--loosing a motor to a 2 cent piece sucks. oh well. I still like dogs.
yep again--i have heard some folks are getting vacuum leaks around the gromments and wondering if maybe they have reached their limit or we better pay more attention to the little things?.
Wish i knew how to post a vid--i could show yall what i have seen.
OD
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...0&d=1250117689

Well, obviously, quite a bit more happened to that car than fire!

yea-- it melted too.
least his insurance did cover.
od

Does anyone have a part number for those blue/red fuel line connectors?

Mine have been played with and I will get a mazda tech to replace them when I get my new turbo installed.

And collided with something substantial at speed!

OD, glad to hear you're getting back on the horse.
make sure you put those fuel lines in properly, I've been told you can install them incorrectly and they APPEAR to be in but if you yank on them, they come loose.

We had a local lose his car this way after the dealership replaced his engine. On his way home the car turned into a ball of flames on the freeway!

Denny, I did not know you started this thread so I posted my observation in the Pettit thread. Not wanting to double post could you look over there and comment?

dont think you will have this prob Phil.
OD

well it seems that you have to buy the entire fuel line--you cant just buy the fittings yall---cost me $37.:(
OD

Believe it or not, Jeff, the damage you see is a result of the engine fire. I was doing 35mph in 3rd when this happened; it was over in 5 minutes, or about 4 min and 30 seconds after I coasted off the road. 3 miles into a test drive after installing new injectors and larger pulley. There was an explosion a lot of fire in the engine bay; the hood melted. It was a gas fire, and the only place it could come from was the fuel rail.

Jeff is right; the connectors are both simple in design and easy to screw up; its entirely possible I missed something connecting them. No leaks showed up at idle when I was double checking my work, but when the fuel pump went to full voltage the pressure could have exploited a flaw. Cam told me this happened to his car at a stoplight; he said he was lucky the car wasn't really hot, and he was able to reconnect the line and drive on. Check these connectors; while you're at it, make sure your cat isn't clogged too.

Wow! All that crumpling and the camber on the wheel was from the fire!?! That must have been ferocious!
Glad you walked away!

Thanks. Not that much drama in all honesty, just frustration at watching my car burn and not be able to do a thing about it. I was out of the car pretty quick, but the fire company told me that cars don't explode like on television.

I'll take his word for it; I had a half tank of fuel.

Anyway, yeah, the fire was a real burner, hood was glowing red hot. Burned completely underneath the car following the fuel line all the way back to the tank, took them forever to put it out. Here's a what the engine bay looked like; hope nobody else ever has this happen, damn glad Denny didn't:

Attachment 144374

yep Lord was watching after me I guess as the gas on top of my intake was actually steaming when i lifted the hood.
I am starting to realize how lucky i was.
olddragger

its just a warning to those that are taking fuel lines on and off--regardless of why. I will guarantte to not take mine for granted now' just because its locked and will not come off.
OD

No need to stir the pot to make a point at someone else expensive mishap.

well my bill was $64 for the fuel line and 4 of the fuel injector grommets--thats with my discount ---at list price it would have been over a $100. the red fuel injectro grommets--list for 9 dollars apiece----#$%^&y---dang!
OD