Upgrading audio...PIE?Icelink?JL Cleansweep???
 

Hi,

Just got a new RX-8 and I already want to upgrade the base stereo. It's a pain that Mazda felt the need to integrate the HU as such.

I've been trying to figure out my options and I've done a search, but it is all very confusing to me at this point. The PIE threads are overly abundant.

What is this PIE device I see everywhere? I reckon it's some kind of transformer that you put in after the HU and it gives you preamp outputs to use with an amp.

Now I have heard that you can do the same by getting an amp that has high line speakerwire inputs? Why go through the trouble with an adapter if the amp can do it for you? Please someone explain the benefits.

I also found JL's cleansweep to be quite interesting, but it's a fairly expensive option at a suggested MSRP of ~$400.

Thanks!

The cleansweep is not the way to go, here are some reasons why. This is a quote from a friend of mine, an IASCA World Champion in Vancouver, BC, 3 hours away from me. I happen to agree with his diagnosis.

"The cleansweep allows you to auto EQ the car so that the output is a full range non boost signal (cool feature), however you can no longer use the factory volume control or that feature is useless (not cool) you now have to use the supplied external volume knob which is not exactly going to look good in most new cars (not cool), it only has front and rear outputs that require front and rear inputs to work (not so cool) it doesn't allow for summing of channels (not cool), it has no sub out (not cool) but it has a AUX in (cool) The US retail is $499 which will probably be at least $599-$799 CDN retail.

The LC6 is $279 retail CDN (much better), it can take a factory tweeter, mid and sub input and sum them together (cool), it creates a SUB out with a optional sub control knob (cool), you can feed it front signal and have front and sub or you can feed it front and rear and get front, rear and sub (coo) It has a line driver built in (cool), has selectible grounding which is always a issue with OEM systems (cool)."

So once again, use the Audio Control LC6 if the system is a basic system or the Audio Control 6XS if it is the Bose system. The system you plan on installing is only as good as the interface. A standard LOC pales in comparison for abilites and capabilites for your audio system.

I would recommend the IceLink if you own an iPod. The IceLink isn't perfect though. Sometimes you have to turn the stereo off and on a couple of times before it links to the stereo properly. It also skips songs sometimes. However, it's soooo much better than a CD player on a long trip. Plus you can use the build in EQ in the iPod. In short, I really love it, even though it's not perfect.

Thanks for the opinion on the Cleansweep. ... Yeah I wasn't too crazy about adding a $500 box just to get nice inputs for an amp.

Any info/opinions on PIE?!?!? What is it and why is it plastered all over this forum?

My current plans are to figure out how to run wires into an amp (PIE/LC6/whatelse?), preferrably into a nice Alpine V12 series, and then to add bass through a JL 10w3 in a 4080 box for a nice clean finish. I'll most likely upgrade speakers and tweeters as I go along. No rush, enjoy the upgrade process.

So what is the best/functional way to get the HU to send a nice clean signal to the amp? PIE? LC6(what is this by the way??) Or would simply buying an amp with line inputs suffice.

Just got into this game with Rotaries and I'm already two years behind....

PIE is a box that connects to the HU to create an aux. input through the external CD changer control. You can still use the CD changer if your car has it. All you do is hit the CD button twice and it will flash EX1 for the aux input. I got one to add my ipod and I love it. If you want to add line level out, the Soundgate, PIE, and Audio Control all make boxes to conver the differential signal from a Bose head unit into good preamp level signals.

Like was mentioned above, the Soundgate and PIE models are called a LOC, or Line Output Convertor. They tap into the factory lines and derive a signal that can then be used by an amp. A better LOC will have some kind of control on it to set the output levels properly. Where a LC6 differs is that it provides much more control and capabilites to the system. It is a highly advanced LOC that allows you to retain the factory volume control up front. It than with the optional level control, will allow you to control the amount of output from your sub indipendent of the main volume control. It will also allow you to expand your system should you want to with a front and rear amplifier + new speakers with no additional devices needed (IE: more PAC or Soundgate LOC's or nasty rca y cables). www.audiocontrol.com to see the units.

Thanks for all the info, so the LC6 or a regular LOC will allow me to use all of the factory buttons on the HU and the steering wheel?

So if I'm getting this right, the LC6 takes all the factory tweeter and speaker outputs and converts them into a preamp signal, while also adding a sub out. And I can do all this with one unit.

If I go single LOC, I can only convert one thing at a time?

Again thanks for all the info, I'm still getting my head wrapped around this, as I am used to the good old aftermarket HU, amp, subs and speakers setups of yesteryear...

:)

Correct on the LC6 and correcton the LOC part unless you purchase a multichannel LOC (up to 4 channels and then you need rca y cables or amps with a throughput to do any more).

You recommend the 6XS for the Bose system, but I don't see any line level inputs on the unit itself..... how exactly would you install it? Does it go before or after the amps at the speakers (ie. the amp mounted in the trunk between the rear speakers)?

The 6XS is a advanced LOC, it can take a 2, 4 or 6 channel input and derive any number of output channels. The advanced LOC stage is easy to use. Find your speaker wires, extend them to where the 6XS is going to be located and solder on an rca end to the wires. You are done, that simple.

In the case of the Bose system, you would tie into the factory preamp lines that are going into the rear Bose amplifier. There are 5 lines inside of a grey sheath. Inside each sheath are the + and - preamp lines that you would use. Cut the preamp lines, solder on extension lines to them, again solder on rca ends to these extension lines and you are done.

awesome, that helps a ton Forbidden.

just one more question though, is the signal coming from the HU strong enough to support just adding some vampire taps to those preamp lines before the Bose amp?

overall im pretty happy with the Bose system, i just need some extra bass to make up for their classic lack of it.

You must not use one of the crappiest devices known to man to tie into these lines. As each line has a + and - in it, you will have to cut the front preamp lines, make a solder t junction or y junction and heatshrink this connection. It is important that you use either the front or rear preamp lines as you cannot use one of each. This is due to the factory head unit sending a drastically different amount of voltage on the front vs. rear preamp lines.

alrighty, looks like ill have to break out the soldering iron on this then.... :)


thanks so much for the info and i apologize for the thread hijacking, i just want to get everything planned and sorted out before i dive into this.


if all goes well, ill have pics posted of my install in the next month or so; im planning to do a custom fiberglass box for a Kicker L7 10" and custom mount for the Kicker KX600.1 amp.


thanks again for the help!

-Digix

600.1 ??? Man i have an OG Solo Baric 10" with the 200.1 in my trunk and its PLENTY loud.

This might be a dumb question........ but why not just buy an amp that has speaker level inputs???

In theory, the amp can take these speaker level inputs and amplify them, etc. Right?? I'm asking because this has been suggested to me instead of a LOC unit such as the LC6, etc.

Clarify this one for me and I should be on my way to buy parts!!

Thanks

hehe, yeah, the sub/amp combo that im gonno use is gonna hit pretty hard, but the last setup i had in my *cough* '93 Celica *cough* was a pair of MTX 10" with 250 watts each.....but that got stolen.... :mad:

so i figure this will be a nice upgrade for the 8 and i will prolly get around to replacing the door/rear deck speakers as well in the future. possibly Polk components.....

Bose uses a differential signal. Amps with speaker level inputs might work, but it wont sound right.

Just to clarify for millionth time. Speaker level signals ARE differential signals. The signals that come in and out of the BOSE amplifier are very similar.

The signals going in to the Bose are pure the ones coming out are heavilly EQ'ed. But from an electrical interface standpoint the signals both have significant DC components and are differential (i.e. the negative signals are not ground but a phase inverted version of the positive signals).

You might as well use the signal going into the Bose instead of the signal coming out. Speaker level inputs into an amplifier should work well.

-Mr. Wigggles

hmmmm