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Hi Guys. I REALLY did not want to start a new thread regarding P2270 but the existing ones don't address my situation. I've also posted in the VersaTune forum regarding this specific topic but the resulting responses contained no helpful information.
I've been running VersaTune for a few years now and have it installed on multiple vehicles. I continue to use it because I do like it and it (IMHO) is a better program and certainly a better company than it's.... aherrrmm.... "competition".
The problem I've been dealing with for a while now is the P2270 code (sometimes with CEL, sometimes not). It just keeps coming back, even though I've got it masked along with several others thru VersaTune. P0410 Secondary Air Injection System appears occasionally as well, but never with CEL and not as consistently. It doesn't bother me because it's not totally preventing me from being able to dial in my tune to my car's specific parameters.
So, basically, I can't scale my MAF effectively if my AFRs have been generated by an ECU that thinks it's got an unreliable O2 sensor reading. I am running the OEM midpipe sans cat. I have replaced the O2 sensor a few times, always with a Denso OEM, just to be sure.
Before I ever got VersaTune I was able to get the CEL to stay off by using one of those electronic signal mimicking devices with a signal range specifically designed to match that of the '8. Yes, the light and code went away, but it was all based on fake numbers which the ECU had no effect on and no use for. As a result the car ran like ****.
One person in the VersaTune forum said he experienced a similar problem for a short while but then "got a new version of the software that is more compatible with [his] car" and the problem went away. HUH? REALLY? (I posed this question to Steve, but his answer seemed to actually muddy the already murky waters, although the jist of it was clearly "Um, NO.")
This is his response:
"VersaTuner is compatible with all Mazda RX-8 vehicles. If you stumble upon an ECU calibration that we have not seen yet, we add support for it in 1 business day.
We may fix bugs or add new features to the RX-8 platform as time goes by. I don't think your issue is related to VersaTuner, but feel free to install the latest version and flash the tune to the car again.
Disabling DTCs only prevents the code from being shown, if there are related internal ECU checks, they will still run. But removing the cat is usually not a problem and will not cause the car to get into limp mode or smth."
Here is a link to the entire thread entitled "Issues with Oxygen Sensors with Tune":
My concern is 2-part...
I need to figure out what to do in order to effectively mask or disable this code from showing up. I do understand that reinstalling a catalyst would fix the issue, but we all know the truth about what catalytic converters do to rotary engines and the subsequent shortening of lifespan.
And, if the software really just "masks", or prevents the CEL from illuminating then the car is still aware of the "problem" underneath it all and is adjusting ratios and readings accordingly then I'll never be able to properly calibrate my MAF anyway, in which case there's no point in trying to tune properly. Might as well give up and throw a general tune from the library on it and go find something else to feel so passionately about.
Thank you in advance for your insights and suggestions (and SOLUTIONS)!
That's all the Cobb ATR and ME flash tuning software do as well, they only mask the cell (stop the check engine light from appearing).
The rear O2 sensor should have zero impact on your Maf scaling.
edit: Are you also saying that VT is failing to stop the CEL from appearing for P2270 and P0410 MILs? I've not had any issue with VT being unable to stop the CEL from appearing.
Ok I just read through that thread link to the Versa Tuner forum.
I'm guessing you are the User "Brightson" as the OP started the thread in 2015.
So if this you, I'm curious why you think the upstream O2 sensor isn't "technically" a O2 sensor? Brightson said:
" When this first started happening I replaced the sensor but the CEL still came on. So I replaced the other sensor (upstream, air/fuel mixture sensor so technically not an O2 sensor) to no avail. Then I replaced the downstream sensor again but I still get the light and the P2270 code. (These are all OEM Denso units so I can safely rule out garbage aftermarket parts as the culprit.)"
The "upstream" or "Front O2 sensor" is in fact a wide band O2 sensor.
This is the O2 sensor you'll want to use for data logging.
Sorry but I'm still confused about what you're exactly saying about the check engine light coming.
Is it coming on when it shouldn't?
Or are you just saying there are still those P2270 P0410 codes in the queue when you check, but the light is off?
It's been awhile since I checked mine but I believe the my queue remains empty of those masked codes.
When I get a chance I'll go check.
Update: My Fault Code queue is empty.
Here is the list of my disabled DTC's
Last edited by wcs; 05-16-2022 at 10:09 AM.
Reason: Checked my Fault Code queue
Ok, at least that clarifies the important parts...but it seems like the rear 02 sensor should have an impact on MAF scaling though because doesn't it work in tandem with the upstream AFR sensor by analyzing the post catalyst gasses? In other words, if the rear sensor's signal goes out of range does that not cause the ECU to alter it's A/F mixture in an attempt to bring it back within range? Or is it really just as simple as: rear sensor signal out or range = failing cat = CEL? And the front AFR sensor signal has NOT changed so the ECU just continues fueling the engine with the same ratios?
That's the gist of it. The rear O2 is for your cat not your fuel trims. The rear O2 is not a wideband so it's utility in tuning anything is pretty limited.
I don't know about VersaTune but if the CEL is popping despite being masked, then it might be popping for a different code entirely. Some codes, like the OMP are specific to this car and not all readers pick them up (although VT should?)
I'll try to clarify the parts where I got confusing (because I WAS confused):
Sometimes I'll pull the codes even when the CEL is NOT on and P2270 will be there with P0410.
Sometimes I'll pull the codes even when the CEL is NOT on and P2270 will be there alone.
Sometimes I'll pull codes because the CEL is on and P2270 will be there alone.
Sometimes I'll pull codes because the CEL is on and both P2270 and P0410 will be there.
I have NOT pulled codes because the CEL is on and found ONLY P0410, so I guess it's not triggering the CEL because it's properly masked.
Sometimes I'll pull the codes even when the CEL is NOT on and there will be NO CODES reported.
Are we masking CELs or are we disabling DTCs? It seems like there is a significant difference between the two.
I think they kind of mean the same thing in this case.
CEL = Check Engine LIght
DTC = Diagnostic Trouble Code
By disabling a DTC you're preventing the system from generating a CEL or MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp) for that particular DTC.
The ECU will not report any issues on a disabled DTC however the ECU would still be receiving telemetry from the specific system, in this case a failing rear o2 sensor or a catalytic convertor performing below efficiency.
The fact that you seem to still be getting disabled DTC's in the queue is odd.
I don't what to tell you about that issue.
Last edited by wcs; 05-16-2022 at 07:19 PM.
Reason: Clean up typo's
I have a question: I have been using Versatune on both of my RX-8s for a while now. I have numerous DTCs masked such as secondary air injection,
O2 sensor voltage high/low, catalyst, intake tuning valve, throttle valve etc... Can you tell me why almost all of them come back shortly after flashing? (Not always with CEL, but the program picks them up as soon as I scan.) Specifically I'm getting "system too lean" and "secondary air inj.", "Auxillary port valve stuck open" etc.
Thanks for your help."
I didn't get a response so I sent it again and asked if he was planning on ever answering my question. Again, no reply.
Thanks for spelling it out, but I actually do know what CEL, MIL & DTC all stand for; what I'm curious about is if, in everyone's general experience, the terms "masking a CEL" and "disabling a DTC" are totally interchangeable and interpreted to mean exactly the same thing, or if there is an actual difference, be it subtle or substantial.
Nit-picking terminology aside, there does appear to be a problem and that is the fact that the DTCs I've disabled are still showing up in my "queue" -- with or without a CEL.
This the list of codes which I've selected to be disabled by VersaTune. This is the list of codes the car produced this morning when I scanned it. No CEL today (yet)
Aren’t the U2616 to U2619 all related to individual TPMS sensors? I tried to link a thread below listing them.
Edit - it would be strange for all of them to sporadically function unless something is loose/corroded at the PCM ECU? No experience with these since I don’t think Canadian cars got those sensors.
Doesn't seem to be a problem for other RX-8 owners... unless my version of VT is somehow different by way of corruption...
I have an old OBDII scanner. I suppose I could compare the results.
Reinstalling VersaTune is definitely going to happen next.
This may be a dumb question but could it just be a bad 02 sensor? That doesn't explain the P0410 though. And I have replaced the O2 sensor a few times, but it's been over a year. LOL
Last edited by sheeRXhilir8tion; 05-23-2022 at 01:38 AM.
Reason: accidental keystroke
Ok, I found another dude who was having the same irritating situation which was being amplified by the absence of a clear, definitive answer. He had to ask his question 3 or 4 times and get 3 or 4 versions of the same answer, but now it's pretty clear.
The other factor that was hanging me up was the major difference between MazdaEdit and Versatune, of which I was unaware. I had MazdaEdit on my car before I decided to try Versatune; guess I was assuming it would behave in the same manner regarding disabling DTCs.
I just pasted the meat of the conversation here:
Does "disable DTC" function affect only the DTC reporting part of self check? If so, does this mean that other checks like EGR or any other that (may) matters to performance are just muted but still influencing performance calculations ?
Disabling the DTCs when flashing the tune only inhibits the engine light or any other light to come on when the ECU software detects those faults. Disabling them will not change the way the ECU logic will react when such a fault is detected.
Can you confirm on what the DTC disable actually does ?
I have an OBD display as a monitoring to the car always on (instead of GPS) with some additional important information that reads error codes etc.
Does it only stop the engine malfunction light come on, or is it also disabling checking of these items altogether. ie if I remove the rear O2 sensor, and disable all codes connected to it. so the ECU doesn't even check if there is one, and no codes reported to OBD port / MIL ?
Disabling a DTC will only inhibit the check engine light when triggered by that PID. The PID values will still be available for reading. The DTC disable feature works exactly as designed in VT, and it works in exactly the same way in the Mazda IDS software or other management tools.
Why is this not implemented like in Mazda Edit where a PID check can be completely disabled? (To prevent safe mod etc. if "critical" components are removed.)
Because Mazdaedit is a different software.
However you can adjust your tune so that it will react differently on the "new" values of that PID.
For me the issue still remains of having the CEL actually turn on for the codes where I specifically have it disabled, but this somehow doesn't bother me as much now, knowing that it's just the "alarm" alerting me to missing "critical components" I've knowingly deleted...even though it's the one and only task required of VT regarding DTC's -- just keeping a little light from illuminating but otherwise HAVING ZERO EFFECT ON ENGINE PERFORMANCE CALCULATIONS/COMMANDS. Because, hey, it's just a light after all. And besides, after more than a decade I've finally learned to ignore the damn TPMS light which appears like clockwork after 15 minutes of driving, and it flashes!
(The major downside here is that if I want this done properly I'm going to begrudgingly have to go back to using MazdaEdit, whose customer "service" is, for the most part, nonexistent.)
so it just blocks them from displaying the CEL on the dash display, but they still show on an OBD2 check and this prevents the vehicle from passing an emission inspection etc.?
If true, that would be a fairly important detail for many purchasers.
.
From what I've read and from personal experience, yes.
And yes, I also feel the same way as you about it...PRETTY IMPORTANT! (And in my particular case it doesn't even prevent the light from coming on, so...not feeling like I really got what I paid for...)
Side note: The last time I had to pass smog (different RX-8) I did so with a cat delete but had to switch from VT to ME. Oddly, the cat was not an issue at all but the deleted sec. air pump monitor would not "ready", even after multiple drive cycles. Eventually I had to reconnect it. It became ready right away and I was able to pass. This was particularly confusing because my other '8 which had the same setup had just passed smog the previous year without the air pump readiness issue (although the mechanic noticed it was physically not there so I bolted the thing back in place without connecting the wires or removing the plate).
FWIW in my experience with having to pass Emission tests every other year to get your plate sticker here in Ontario (this has changed recently), neither the Cobb or VT would mask any of the "Emission Readiness Monitors".
I'm sure I read somewhere that ECU flashers typically don't (or can't I'm not sure) mask the Emission Readiness Monitors.
(It might have been Cobb specific, I'll try and find where I saw this, unless I'm making **** up).
But anyways, my point is I've always had to hook up the entire Secondary Air Pump system and do a drive cycle (this process I can find if you need it) to get the Emissions Readiness to pass.
Just my 2c
Edit: Just a thought about your other 8 passing the smog test... We were allowed one not Ready monitor lamp and still pass the smog test. Perhaps the reason your other 8 passed was because of it was the only not ready monitor and this was a pass by your local emission laws?
First post. Been lurking awhile.
My experience is the same. I mask 0420 with versatune, and it does not appear in que. Sometimes however, I'll get a check engine light on startup, pull codes and find that it's there, along with a couple others that don't make sense. What I noticed that might help you tho, is if I key on, wait until the pump primes(2 seconds) I do not get these. If flick the key through on position and into start, that's when I get the masked codes appearing. I think it has something to do with the way versatune is written. It seems to need the extra 2 seconds to get things in order. Or maybe not. Just a theory, just an anecdote.
Just a thought about your other 8 passing the smog test... We were allowed one not Ready monitor lamp and still pass the smog test. Perhaps the reason your other 8 passed was because of it was the only not ready monitor and this was a pass by your local emission laws?
Yes, good point; that most likely was the case. Thank you for reminding me.
What I noticed that might help you tho, is if I key on, wait until the pump primes(2 seconds) I do not get these. If flick the key through on position and into start, that's when I get the masked codes appearing. I think it has something to do with the way versatune is written. It seems to need the extra 2 seconds to get things in order. Or maybe not. Just a theory, just an anecdote.
So you haven't deleted the pump and it's somewhat functional but not entirely hence the DTC and that's why you've masked it?
Your key-on theory sounds plausible. I can't really test it on that car because the pump is disconnected but I just got another '8 and the air pump is going. Will mask it and see how this one behaves then let you know if it does the same thing as yours.
05-15-2022, 11:20 PM
