Adaptronics stand alone rx8 ecu
11-22-2017, 12:37 PM
#101
I received the base map, but wasn’t thinking too clearly. I can’t do anything with it until the ecu arrives. Hoping next week, but might be the following one. I still have to finish plumbing in the ethanol sensor and fuel filter to get the engine to running condition, but didn’t really want to fill the cooling system until the radiator shrouding is completed in case it needs to come apart for some reason.
11-23-2017, 03:50 AM
#105
It certainly is feature packed.
no DSC "yet" I hope they deliver on that promise. I think i'll be hanging back and seeing how it pans out.
sounds like there could be lots of dyno time involved in getting one dialed in.
no DSC "yet" I hope they deliver on that promise. I think i'll be hanging back and seeing how it pans out.
sounds like there could be lots of dyno time involved in getting one dialed in.
11-23-2017, 11:27 AM
#106
I don’t have DSC (base 2005) or cruise control (aftermarket steering wheel) so those two features don’t impact me. I obviously misinterpreted the “port balancing” commentary (was actually injector staging balance), but it’s clearly not marketing bs either. Well we won’t have to be guessing for much longer because for anyone wanting full performance modification control this is it and it will be available within a week or so. 
Word of caution, if your car is street driven I don’t see that they provided any way for the ecu to output the OBD2 data necessary to pass a state emission check. So initially this appears to be for off road use only here in the USA.
EDIT: my understanding is that there will never be any emissons go-around offered because in the last year or so the EPA has started tracking down and assessing huge fines on aftermarket companies for offering tampering devices and services!
Word of caution, if your car is street driven I don’t see that they provided any way for the ecu to output the OBD2 data necessary to pass a state emission check. So initially this appears to be for off road use only here in the USA.
EDIT: my understanding is that there will never be any emissons go-around offered because in the last year or so the EPA has started tracking down and assessing huge fines on aftermarket companies for offering tampering devices and services!
Last edited by TeamRX8; 11-23-2017 at 11:36 PM.
11-23-2017, 03:31 PM
#108
the injector balance issue may be more apparent on old injectors and engines 
tuning per-rotor needs injector trim tables. it has enough O2 inputs.
this is also a MAP based fuel model. I'm still mulling over how it deals with physical changes.
with a MAF system changing the exhaust and intercooler results in an obvious increase in mass air-flow and the load increases accordingly. In a MAP based model do you have to retune VE with every change?
The MAF would be a nice “indicator” to wire in and log to test changes.
tuning per-rotor needs injector trim tables. it has enough O2 inputs.
this is also a MAP based fuel model. I'm still mulling over how it deals with physical changes.
with a MAF system changing the exhaust and intercooler results in an obvious increase in mass air-flow and the load increases accordingly. In a MAP based model do you have to retune VE with every change?
The MAF would be a nice “indicator” to wire in and log to test changes.
11-23-2017, 05:29 PM
#109
Dang, I missed that and just installed a MAF bung in my shiny CF intake tube thinking it would still be used. Guess I need to fabricate a bungholio plug now and forget about installing the honeycomb air straighteners 
It does have some high end self tuning mode capabilities, but admittedly I’m not familiar with them yet and not sure how effective they may be.
WRT how they missed that, well how did they miss all the other things that plagued the platform for so long, as well as they had other considerations for emissions, durability, etc. that likely compromised ultimate power. There are a number of OE software strategies that I personally feel were holding ultimate NA performance back and am looking forward to seeing what the end result will be with those eliminated.
It does have some high end self tuning mode capabilities, but admittedly I’m not familiar with them yet and not sure how effective they may be.
WRT how they missed that, well how did they miss all the other things that plagued the platform for so long, as well as they had other considerations for emissions, durability, etc. that likely compromised ultimate power. There are a number of OE software strategies that I personally feel were holding ultimate NA performance back and am looking forward to seeing what the end result will be with those eliminated.
11-23-2017, 08:55 PM
#110
Dang, I missed that and just installed a MAF bung in my shiny CF intake tube thinking it would still be used. Guess I need to fabricate a bungholio plug now and forget about installing the honeycomb air straighteners
It does have some high end self tuning mode capabilities, but admittedly I’m not familiar with them yet and not sure how effective they may be.
WRT how they missed that, well how did they miss all the other things that plagued the platform for so long, as well as they had other considerations for emissions, durability, etc. that likely compromised ultimate power. There are a number of OE software strategies that I personally feel were holding ultimate NA performance back and am looking forward to seeing what the end result will be with those eliminated.
It does have some high end self tuning mode capabilities, but admittedly I’m not familiar with them yet and not sure how effective they may be.
WRT how they missed that, well how did they miss all the other things that plagued the platform for so long, as well as they had other considerations for emissions, durability, etc. that likely compromised ultimate power. There are a number of OE software strategies that I personally feel were holding ultimate NA performance back and am looking forward to seeing what the end result will be with those eliminated.
11-23-2017, 09:12 PM
#111
Will be interested to see your results, Team. Steve Kan told me that Cobb corporate recently changed over to a subscription model, so he doesn't know how much longer he will support the platform. It looks like Adpatronic and MazdaEdit are the only two viable platforms.
11-24-2017, 12:16 AM
#112
Ok, well I had realized after posting about the MAF that the air temp was still needed, but then this was also confirmed in an email in an off-line discussion regarding this thread.
Also see my edit several posts above regarding emissions compatibility; apparently the aftermarket manufacturers are in the process of getting a serious shakedown over this by the EPA. I always wondered if/when this would happen. There were just too many people flaunting outright cat deletion etc. which I never was a fan of.
Same discussion also clarified that there is in fact both fuel and ignition trim available per rotor in the pcm (thought I’d seen it discussed before), but ignition trim use was not recommended for some reason (no explanation why).
You turbo guys will have EMAP capability wrt exhaust pressure sensing which will be nice
Apparently you’ll need an aftermarket O2 sensor setup as currently the factory sensor is not compatible without some significant changes.
Having a flex fuel sensor also allows reading and compensating for fuel temp which is a bigger deal with E85 fuel.
.
Also see my edit several posts above regarding emissions compatibility; apparently the aftermarket manufacturers are in the process of getting a serious shakedown over this by the EPA. I always wondered if/when this would happen. There were just too many people flaunting outright cat deletion etc. which I never was a fan of.
Same discussion also clarified that there is in fact both fuel and ignition trim available per rotor in the pcm (thought I’d seen it discussed before), but ignition trim use was not recommended for some reason (no explanation why).
You turbo guys will have EMAP capability wrt exhaust pressure sensing which will be nice
Apparently you’ll need an aftermarket O2 sensor setup as currently the factory sensor is not compatible without some significant changes.
Having a flex fuel sensor also allows reading and compensating for fuel temp which is a bigger deal with E85 fuel.
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 11-24-2017 at 12:36 AM.
11-24-2017, 12:27 AM
#113
Cobb was sold off/bought out by Autometer about a year ago. Have to wonder if it was a result of the EPA crackdown being the writing on the wall. I saw where Harley Davidson had to pay a $15 Million fine for selling an aftermarket tuner and then subsequently Californication passed an anti-tampering motorcyle law as a result too. Apparently SEMA has been battling with the EPA for the last year over a proposal that would make it illegal to convert any road-legal vehicle to off-road/competition use. The federal beuracracy was seriously out of control under the previous administration.
11-24-2017, 04:35 AM
#116
After watching the video again it mentions the MAF is hooked up.
if they can guarantee the stability control will function down the track I think I will be getting one.
if they can guarantee the stability control will function down the track I think I will be getting one.
11-24-2017, 09:12 AM
#117
SARX Legend
iTrader: (46)
Cobb was sold off/bought out by Autometer about a year ago. Have to wonder if it was a result of the EPA crackdown being the writing on the wall. I saw where Harley Davidson had to pay a $15 Million fine for selling an aftermarket tuner and then subsequently Californication passed an anti-tampering motorcyle law as a result too. Apparently SEMA has been battling with the EPA for the last year over a proposal that would make it illegal to convert any road-legal vehicle to off-road/competition use. The federal beuracracy was seriously out of control under the previous administration.
One of the popular BMW tuner manufacturers just got fined 100k by C.A.R.B. and had to change all of their software and remove a bunch of popular features. They were already getting killed by flash tuner competition as well so this just made it worse.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 11-24-2017 at 01:23 PM.
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9krpmrx8 (11-24-2017)
11-24-2017, 11:16 PM
#119
So I went through the base map and configured some of my basic parameters like fuel injectors (super easy because all the ID injectors are listed, just click & enter), idle speed, rpm limit, etc.
Took me a bit to find the intake valve controls; listed under the main “Tuning-Air” tab and “Switched Inlet” sub-tab. The SSV is initially set at 4400 rpm, seems a bit high to me, but I didn’t bother adjusting any of those yet.
One custom pin/wire tie-in with my AiM dash display will be nice rather than using the flakey factory diagnostic port connection.
Otherwise the software is fairly easy to use. It’s just a matter of becoming familiar with everything
Took me a bit to find the intake valve controls; listed under the main “Tuning-Air” tab and “Switched Inlet” sub-tab. The SSV is initially set at 4400 rpm, seems a bit high to me, but I didn’t bother adjusting any of those yet.
One custom pin/wire tie-in with my AiM dash display will be nice rather than using the flakey factory diagnostic port connection.
Otherwise the software is fairly easy to use. It’s just a matter of becoming familiar with everything
11-24-2017, 11:17 PM
#120
Hi Everyone,
I was reading through this thread and I am seeing some inconstant information and I would like to lay it out for everyone.
1. This ECU is a full standalone - NOT A PIGGY BACK - the stock ECU is completely removed.
2. The ECU will have full function with all OEM features. This also includes all dash functions along with the immobilizer which you can disable or enable. The first 12 units sold do not have traction control working but that will be introduced in a firmware/software update in the near future.
3. The basemap that was done by Andy Wyatt on the adaptronic in house dyno was done to mimic as close to stock as possible. It does make slightly more hp than the OEM ECU at roughly the same A/F ratio. This was done by changing the % of the duty cycle between the stages. Andy does believe that optimizing this further may lead to more hp.
4. Like all Modular ECU's there are 4 map sensor's (2 internal, 2 external), 2 analog wideband inputs (but with serial or can you can add many more if necessary). There is not internal EGT's available but you can install a TC-4 and connect it to 2 of the serial IN ports on the front of the ECU. The ECU also has the availability to enable individual cylinder (rotor) correction. So YES you can tune each side of the engine separately you can even have the ECU treat each side as its own bank if you wanted to.
5. Since the Mazda Rx8 Utilizes CAN to communicate between the ABS unit, ECM, and DASH you can also use this form of communication to install a dash display that communicates over CAN. The OEM can channels are set to a specific bit rate so this can limit what dash's will work over the OEM can channel luckily this ECU has 2 separate CAN channels so you can utilize other available CAN dash display's available on the market. What is very exciting about the Mazda Rx8 utilizing CAN with the OEM function is that the OEM designated CAN channel is accessed through OBD2 port thus giving you the option of having a PNP dash without having to do any wiring.
6. Andy does have the intentions of output OBD2 data for applications like blue tooth readers ect that you can view certain data on your cell phone app ect.. This does not mean that you will be able to pass your SMOG test with this ECU as it will fail a readiness test.
7. The ECU does its tuning via speed density so you do not need your MAF BUT the MAF has the air intake temperature input. You can always cut off the MAF and install a aftermarket air temp sensor if you like but this is not necessary. (would most likely be done by someone doing a swap)
8. The ECU has 8 ignition outputs and 8 Injector outputs. In its OEM configuration the extra ignition outputs and Injector outputs are used to control different parts of the OEM engine configuration. But if you are turbocharging or doing an engine swap these items can be used to meet the applications needs. aka if you wanted to install a 4 rotor engine into the rx8 the ECU would be able to run the engine with 2 injectors per rotor and 2 coils per rotor. The swap does not need to be rotary it can be anything up to a V8 and still run direct fire and sequential injection.
9. Will this ECU be hard to setup? NO! The main reason for the dyno results was to develop a fully functional basemap. So if you have a car with an intake and exhaust you will need to some very basic tuning to utilize the gains of the modifications you have made. There could be a percentage to be gained by changing the staging which may need to be done by a tuner. Doing an engine swap will def complicate the setup but with Adaptronic's interactive pin-out wiring guide makes finding pin locations for modifications a breeze.
10. Flex fuel all modular ECU's have the ability to do flex fuel - The installation of the flex fuel sensor would be considered a little bit more on the technically oriented side of things having to modify the fuel system to introduce the flex fuel sensor and then the wiring of the flex fuel sensor will require sourcing 12v power and ground and pining the flex fuel output into the ECU. After that the ECU uses the ethanol content to automatically adjust the stoich and then after that there should only be slight modifications to fuel and timing depending on how aggressive you want to be on e85. Also the flex fuel sensor reads fuel temperature which allows the ECU to compensate for the changing of density of the fuel.
11. Aftermarket sensor install's can be easily done by selecting from a number of drop downs (which comes in handy with swaps) Also depending on the sensor function its actual function can be changed to meet the needs in a more convenient way to accomplish ones needs. Aka the Baro sensor in the engine bay can be re-purposed for a fuel pressure sensor and utilizing 1 of the internal map sensors on the ECU to still compensate for baro.
I was reading through this thread and I am seeing some inconstant information and I would like to lay it out for everyone.
1. This ECU is a full standalone - NOT A PIGGY BACK - the stock ECU is completely removed.
2. The ECU will have full function with all OEM features. This also includes all dash functions along with the immobilizer which you can disable or enable. The first 12 units sold do not have traction control working but that will be introduced in a firmware/software update in the near future.
3. The basemap that was done by Andy Wyatt on the adaptronic in house dyno was done to mimic as close to stock as possible. It does make slightly more hp than the OEM ECU at roughly the same A/F ratio. This was done by changing the % of the duty cycle between the stages. Andy does believe that optimizing this further may lead to more hp.
4. Like all Modular ECU's there are 4 map sensor's (2 internal, 2 external), 2 analog wideband inputs (but with serial or can you can add many more if necessary). There is not internal EGT's available but you can install a TC-4 and connect it to 2 of the serial IN ports on the front of the ECU. The ECU also has the availability to enable individual cylinder (rotor) correction. So YES you can tune each side of the engine separately you can even have the ECU treat each side as its own bank if you wanted to.
5. Since the Mazda Rx8 Utilizes CAN to communicate between the ABS unit, ECM, and DASH you can also use this form of communication to install a dash display that communicates over CAN. The OEM can channels are set to a specific bit rate so this can limit what dash's will work over the OEM can channel luckily this ECU has 2 separate CAN channels so you can utilize other available CAN dash display's available on the market. What is very exciting about the Mazda Rx8 utilizing CAN with the OEM function is that the OEM designated CAN channel is accessed through OBD2 port thus giving you the option of having a PNP dash without having to do any wiring.
6. Andy does have the intentions of output OBD2 data for applications like blue tooth readers ect that you can view certain data on your cell phone app ect.. This does not mean that you will be able to pass your SMOG test with this ECU as it will fail a readiness test.
7. The ECU does its tuning via speed density so you do not need your MAF BUT the MAF has the air intake temperature input. You can always cut off the MAF and install a aftermarket air temp sensor if you like but this is not necessary. (would most likely be done by someone doing a swap)
8. The ECU has 8 ignition outputs and 8 Injector outputs. In its OEM configuration the extra ignition outputs and Injector outputs are used to control different parts of the OEM engine configuration. But if you are turbocharging or doing an engine swap these items can be used to meet the applications needs. aka if you wanted to install a 4 rotor engine into the rx8 the ECU would be able to run the engine with 2 injectors per rotor and 2 coils per rotor. The swap does not need to be rotary it can be anything up to a V8 and still run direct fire and sequential injection.
9. Will this ECU be hard to setup? NO! The main reason for the dyno results was to develop a fully functional basemap. So if you have a car with an intake and exhaust you will need to some very basic tuning to utilize the gains of the modifications you have made. There could be a percentage to be gained by changing the staging which may need to be done by a tuner. Doing an engine swap will def complicate the setup but with Adaptronic's interactive pin-out wiring guide makes finding pin locations for modifications a breeze.
10. Flex fuel all modular ECU's have the ability to do flex fuel - The installation of the flex fuel sensor would be considered a little bit more on the technically oriented side of things having to modify the fuel system to introduce the flex fuel sensor and then the wiring of the flex fuel sensor will require sourcing 12v power and ground and pining the flex fuel output into the ECU. After that the ECU uses the ethanol content to automatically adjust the stoich and then after that there should only be slight modifications to fuel and timing depending on how aggressive you want to be on e85. Also the flex fuel sensor reads fuel temperature which allows the ECU to compensate for the changing of density of the fuel.
11. Aftermarket sensor install's can be easily done by selecting from a number of drop downs (which comes in handy with swaps) Also depending on the sensor function its actual function can be changed to meet the needs in a more convenient way to accomplish ones needs. Aka the Baro sensor in the engine bay can be re-purposed for a fuel pressure sensor and utilizing 1 of the internal map sensors on the ECU to still compensate for baro.
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RotaryMachineRx (11-25-2017)
i got a "sponsored" thread/ad on my facebook that had a video and a link to the text story. thought i'dshare it just in case.