Adaptronic Select Discussion
09-08-2012, 11:15 AM
#26
weeeeeeeeee
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Adaptive Tuner for Android
I've completed my first development milestone with this app and am comfortable enough with the state of the code to release it.* I'll provide more details (screenshots / etc) later.* I still need to attach the Apache 2.0 license notifications but assume in the meantime that usage and distribution is governed by that license.
Requires a RS232 (DB9) to Bluetooth adapter connected to the Select's second serial port and already paired with your phone.*
Adaptive Tuner displays key gauge data: RPM, MAP, MAT, WAT, and AFR.* It additionally presents the status of the 6 Adaptive Mode Learning State flags using a big visual graphic for each, alleviating the need to wire up LEDs if you use Adaptive Closed Loop for learning.
https://github.com/synman/AdaptiveTuner
I've completed my first development milestone with this app and am comfortable enough with the state of the code to release it.* I'll provide more details (screenshots / etc) later.* I still need to attach the Apache 2.0 license notifications but assume in the meantime that usage and distribution is governed by that license.
Requires a RS232 (DB9) to Bluetooth adapter connected to the Select's second serial port and already paired with your phone.*
Adaptive Tuner displays key gauge data: RPM, MAP, MAT, WAT, and AFR.* It additionally presents the status of the 6 Adaptive Mode Learning State flags using a big visual graphic for each, alleviating the need to wire up LEDs if you use Adaptive Closed Loop for learning.
https://github.com/synman/AdaptiveTuner
Last edited by ShellDude; 09-08-2012 at 07:21 PM.
09-10-2012, 12:34 AM
#27
I'm assuming you're talking about the SSV and VDI, Team.... and I agree. Mazda did a ton of research into air patterns and all that crazy stuff. While I haven't monitored it yet myself, I plan to soon, it appears the factory ECU works off of more than just RPM and TPS to manage them.
If you're referring to deadzone then I'm a little confused as the Select takes full control over your fuel system. Getting your deadzone right helps its Predictive mode manage sudden TPS changes.
If you're referring to deadzone then I'm a little confused as the Select takes full control over your fuel system. Getting your deadzone right helps its Predictive mode manage sudden TPS changes.
09-10-2012, 01:05 AM
#28
They need to work on this...it can't be left to a maybe..
Not sure why it is a problem though..it is controlled by the solenoid that is super easy to trigger....even the Microtech could do that
09-10-2012, 01:38 AM
#29
weeeeeeeeee
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
The intake system on the 4-port engine has 2 intake ports per rotor, for a total of 4. Intake ports are controlled by opening/ closing of a variable intake valve governing use of the secondary intake port.
First, at low engine speeds, only the primary intake port is used, speeding intake flow for improved low-end torque. Next, the secondary port comes into operation at around 3750rpm through the opening of its shutter valve, slowing intake flow to increase low- and mid- range torque. In addition, the 6-port engine’s auxiliary port opens at about 6250rpm to maximize intake port area and boost high-end torque and power output to the upper limit. Finally, with the 6-port engine, the variable intake valve opens at around 7250rpm (approximately 5750rpm in the 4-port engine), effectively lengthening the intake manifold for improved mid-range torque.
First, at low engine speeds, only the primary intake port is used, speeding intake flow for improved low-end torque. Next, the secondary port comes into operation at around 3750rpm through the opening of its shutter valve, slowing intake flow to increase low- and mid- range torque. In addition, the 6-port engine’s auxiliary port opens at about 6250rpm to maximize intake port area and boost high-end torque and power output to the upper limit. Finally, with the 6-port engine, the variable intake valve opens at around 7250rpm (approximately 5750rpm in the 4-port engine), effectively lengthening the intake manifold for improved mid-range torque.
Last edited by ShellDude; 09-10-2012 at 01:43 AM.
09-10-2012, 06:29 AM
#31
weeeeeeeeee
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Via a handful of loggers I have been able to capture SSV opening at 3750 RPM and the secondary staging begin at 3950-4100 regardless if load.
As I see more scenarios I'll post them based off of real world data. Would appreciate it if you and Team did the sane rather than just crap in the thread.
As I see more scenarios I'll post them based off of real world data. Would appreciate it if you and Team did the sane rather than just crap in the thread.
09-10-2012, 07:05 AM
#32
weeeeeeeeee
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Adaptive Tuner for Android
I've completed my first development milestone with this app and am comfortable enough with the state of the code to release it.* I'll provide more details (screenshots / etc) later.* I still need to attach the Apache 2.0 license notifications but assume in the meantime that usage and distribution is governed by that license.
Requires a RS232 (DB9) to Bluetooth adapter connected to the Select's second serial port and already paired with your phone.*
Adaptive Tuner displays key gauge data: RPM, MAP, MAT, WAT, and AFR.* It additionally presents the status of the 6 Adaptive Mode Learning State flags using a big visual graphic for each, alleviating the need to wire up LEDs if you use Adaptive Closed Loop for learning.
https://github.com/synman/AdaptiveTuner
I've completed my first development milestone with this app and am comfortable enough with the state of the code to release it.* I'll provide more details (screenshots / etc) later.* I still need to attach the Apache 2.0 license notifications but assume in the meantime that usage and distribution is governed by that license.
Requires a RS232 (DB9) to Bluetooth adapter connected to the Select's second serial port and already paired with your phone.*
Adaptive Tuner displays key gauge data: RPM, MAP, MAT, WAT, and AFR.* It additionally presents the status of the 6 Adaptive Mode Learning State flags using a big visual graphic for each, alleviating the need to wire up LEDs if you use Adaptive Closed Loop for learning.
https://github.com/synman/AdaptiveTuner
09-10-2012, 09:05 AM
#34
weeeeeeeeee
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
All I ask is that you provide data to support your statements. There's absolutely nothing constructive I can do with "It's broke" or "Even a Microtrash can do it".
All published data (plus what little I've been able to capture first hand) indicates that it's based on RPM alone. If you have specific data that indicates otherwise share it.
The only "problem" I've actually seen is that the Adaptronic does not provide feedback to the OEM ECU when it has control of the SSV. That doesn't mean it doesn't work. The parameters it uses are RPM > configured value or TPS > 75%.
I chose to go with the OEM ECU for it to avoid the CEL and let it do what it already does well. I have not observed any scenarios yet where the secondaries kicked in and the SSV wasn't open or the SSV was open for a meaningful amount of time prior to the secondaries kicking in.
All published data (plus what little I've been able to capture first hand) indicates that it's based on RPM alone. If you have specific data that indicates otherwise share it.
The only "problem" I've actually seen is that the Adaptronic does not provide feedback to the OEM ECU when it has control of the SSV. That doesn't mean it doesn't work. The parameters it uses are RPM > configured value or TPS > 75%.
I chose to go with the OEM ECU for it to avoid the CEL and let it do what it already does well. I have not observed any scenarios yet where the secondaries kicked in and the SSV wasn't open or the SSV was open for a meaningful amount of time prior to the secondaries kicking in.
Last edited by ShellDude; 09-10-2012 at 09:12 AM.
10-03-2012, 09:35 PM
#36
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Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Have been working on Adaptive Tuner in my spare time and will be pushing out 1.06 for Honeycomb+ devices tonight... I'm on the verge of implementing the ability to update fuel/ignition maps real-time...
Anyone who has followed my android car tablet thread will see I implemented a similar gauge dashboard for Adaptive Tuner.
Anyone who has followed my android car tablet thread will see I implemented a similar gauge dashboard for Adaptive Tuner.
11-17-2012, 11:52 AM
#39
weeeeeeeeee
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
I'd been struggling with throttle overrun from day 1 and finally figured it out this week.
All it took was a little tweaking on my part. 6MTs won't have all the same issues as the Select knows whether they are in gear or not.
First is getting overrun set correctly in the Power Cut tab (as shown):
"Only when in gear" was selected with my base map and that'll never work with an auto. I also lowered the RPM thresholds by a couple hundred RPMs.
And second is ensuring that you give a little bit of wiggle room for trigging closed throttle in the Analogue Calibrations tab (as shown):
All I did here was raise closed throttle from 1% to 2%. I've noticed that (at least on the auto) that Mazda likes to have the TPS at 1% with zero throttle when there's any kind of load. The result was that the Select would never trigger the closed throttle flag because the TPS position must be BELOW the set threshold.
These changes netted me about 5 mpg in stop and go traffic, DOH!
Enjoy!
All it took was a little tweaking on my part. 6MTs won't have all the same issues as the Select knows whether they are in gear or not.
First is getting overrun set correctly in the Power Cut tab (as shown):
"Only when in gear" was selected with my base map and that'll never work with an auto. I also lowered the RPM thresholds by a couple hundred RPMs.
And second is ensuring that you give a little bit of wiggle room for trigging closed throttle in the Analogue Calibrations tab (as shown):
All I did here was raise closed throttle from 1% to 2%. I've noticed that (at least on the auto) that Mazda likes to have the TPS at 1% with zero throttle when there's any kind of load. The result was that the Select would never trigger the closed throttle flag because the TPS position must be BELOW the set threshold.
These changes netted me about 5 mpg in stop and go traffic, DOH!
Enjoy!
11-17-2012, 12:03 PM
#40
weeeeeeeeee
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Also, had a chance to have her on a dyno mid-week for some WOT tuning. Still am not any higher with BNR's "upgrade" at 9PSI than where I was stock GReddy @ 7PSI. 180ish whp is all I can get out of this sucker.
With that said, I did spend some time intently monitoring my SSV and logging injector duty. Remember, I still use the stock ECU for controlling SSV.
Like clockwork, no variations at any point at WOT:
Secondaries kick in at 4,500 RPM
SSV opens at 5200 RPM
With that said, I did spend some time intently monitoring my SSV and logging injector duty. Remember, I still use the stock ECU for controlling SSV.
Like clockwork, no variations at any point at WOT:
Secondaries kick in at 4,500 RPM
SSV opens at 5200 RPM
11-22-2012, 09:25 PM
#42
weeeeeeeeee
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Nobody is crapping in your thread. Try wearing some thicker panties or something. You can't even get your own story straight on the subject. Dan and I have rather extensive experience, but admittedly it is for the 6 port. I don't know enough about the 4 port to say if it uses the same control settings as the 6 port or not and didn't fully consider that it could be different.
That was an update provided by visually monitoring the ssv.
Lighten up grumpleton.
11-24-2012, 11:45 AM
#43
weeeeeeeeee
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
no need to delete anything ... just looking for REAL data. Beyond a basic load check the activation does appear to be static.
There's got to be a reference table missing somewhere. When I look at the unintuitive table exposed in ATR it shows kicking in at 3000 RPM and I know beyond any doubt that is not the case now.
Am also seriously considering going back to the Select for SSV control and simply suppressing the CEL in ATR. I don't think Dave spent as much as time I would've tinkering there.
Perhaps we can agree on that? Happy Holidays by the way. Hope yours was as "filling" as mine
There's got to be a reference table missing somewhere. When I look at the unintuitive table exposed in ATR it shows kicking in at 3000 RPM and I know beyond any doubt that is not the case now.
Am also seriously considering going back to the Select for SSV control and simply suppressing the CEL in ATR. I don't think Dave spent as much as time I would've tinkering there.
Perhaps we can agree on that? Happy Holidays by the way. Hope yours was as "filling" as mine
11-24-2012, 02:29 PM
#44
Also, had a chance to have her on a dyno mid-week for some WOT tuning. Still am not any higher with BNR's "upgrade" at 9PSI than where I was stock GReddy @ 7PSI. 180ish whp is all I can get out of this sucker.
With that said, I did spend some time intently monitoring my SSV and logging injector duty. Remember, I still use the stock ECU for controlling SSV.
Like clockwork, no variations at any point at WOT:
Secondaries kick in at 4,500 RPM
SSV opens at 5200 RPM
With that said, I did spend some time intently monitoring my SSV and logging injector duty. Remember, I still use the stock ECU for controlling SSV.
Like clockwork, no variations at any point at WOT:
Secondaries kick in at 4,500 RPM
SSV opens at 5200 RPM
What i do to monitor SSV is run a long vacuum hose into the cab and put my finger over it to see when there is vacuum on the hose . Varies a LOT depending on load on the 6MT.
Also : the reason you are not making more power at 9psi (assuming same dyno) is probably because you are not seeing 9psi all the way to peak power/rpm . There is an easy solution for that ..........
Last edited by Brettus; 11-24-2012 at 02:45 PM.
11-24-2012, 10:43 PM
#46
thinking you should actually try to log boost and see for sure . It's possible you can make less power with more boost but it would take a mechanical issue to make that happen . There shouldn't be any difference from the larger turbo - boost is boost within reason (hi kane
) If you can't get more boost at higher rpm - the way to do it is well documented in my thread https://www.rx8club.com/major-horsep...g-bank-172542/
Last edited by Brettus; 11-24-2012 at 10:47 PM.
11-25-2012, 12:37 PM
#47
weeeeeeeeee
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Gawd, Team you're a tough one to keep up with. Didn't realize we were in a competition.
Brett I logged the runs and will review MAP values today and read (possibly reread) your linked thread. Thanks!
Brett I logged the runs and will review MAP values today and read (possibly reread) your linked thread. Thanks!
11-25-2012, 05:24 PM
#48
01-17-2013, 01:52 PM
#50
weeeeeeeeee
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
Am still maintaining, and adding features to, Adaptive Tuner.
I also still have the Select in my 8 and have her tuned as well, if not better, than I ever did with the AP.
At the risk of being labelled a fanboy, the whole exercise was greatly simplified with a MAP based system. I'd have a really hard time going back to MAF.
I also still have the Select in my 8 and have her tuned as well, if not better, than I ever did with the AP.
At the risk of being labelled a fanboy, the whole exercise was greatly simplified with a MAP based system. I'd have a really hard time going back to MAF.