Strange Intake Manifold Sound
While the car was on the dyno today, we have been trying to address some of the small problems that have surfaced. We've been able to figure out most but there is one that is baffling us.
There is a sound coming from the intake manifold when you give partial throttle, which sounds comparable to lifter tick in a typical piston motor (but obviously there are no lifters in a rotary). Also under partial throttle the intake manifold actually expands and contracts, this is partial throttle blips revving to like 2000 if that. |
What do you mean it expands and contracts? Like it is swelling up and deflating again? Which part of the manifold is doing this?
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Originally posted by ranger4277 What do you mean it expands and contracts? Like it is swelling up and deflating again? Which part of the manifold is doing this? |
That's because it is made from a composite. Paul Yaw was going to address that issue on his supercharged race car by building an aluminum upper manifold. He had this same concern.
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you mean if you have FI you need a stronger manifold
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I know aluminum can handle a good amount of pressure with no issues but what about the new composite upper manifold? A few LS1 guys that have gone to forced induction have cracked the factory composite manifolds on those engines. These are made from basically the same stuff. I'm not saying that it necessarily will crack or break, but it isn't as strong as metal.
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Originally posted by rotarygod I know aluminum can handle a good amount of pressure with no issues but what about the new composite upper manifold? A few LS1 guys that have gone to forced induction have cracked the factory composite manifolds on those engines. These are made from basically the same stuff. I'm not saying that it necessarily will crack or break, but it isn't as strong as metal. |
Wow, it flexes really soon. If it does break, hopefully it will just be a crack rather than parts flying off into the engine.
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Yikes... You paint an ugly picture RotaryGod.. If it's that bad, I would hold off and machine the part...
Better safe then sorry |
Do you think the amount of boost would matter. I don't think anyone is going to run much P.S.I. in the RX8 if it is F.I.
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Originally posted by rotarygod That's because it is made from a composite. Paul Yaw was going to address that issue on his supercharged race car by building an aluminum upper manifold. He had this same concern. |
Originally posted by Japan8 You know I wondered about that too. Can the manifold really take much pressure since it's composite. Based on SSR's findings... that answer is apparantly no. It is really surprising that it's flexing at 1500 rpm 25% throttle @ 5psi. |
SSR, it's time to set yourself up as a site vendor. Please PM me or get in touch with Ryan Scott at advertising@rxtuner.com . Thanks.
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I remember from some odd years ago there was an article in a car magazine about using composites for things like intake manifolds. At the time I had wondered about the heat resistance and strength of the composites... now I find myself wondering the same thing again. Maybe this is a mod that someone should look into... replacing the upper intake manifold with an aluminum one.
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Originally posted by Japan8 I remember from some odd years ago there was an article in a car magazine about using composites for things like intake manifolds. At the time I had wondered about the heat resistance and strength of the composites... now I find myself wondering the same thing again. Maybe this is a mod that someone should look into... replacing the upper intake manifold with an aluminum one. |
So did the run ever get done? It sounds to me like you will be trying the dyno run if you havent done it already....
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Originally Posted by SSR Engineering
My mistake, that is when we are hearing the sound, but the manifold is flexing under revs with NO LOAD, there is no boost going through the manifold and it is flexing, this is 50-100% throttle in neutral.
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SSR: Take a look at this thread here. Perhaps this could help with finding your noise (unless of course, you already have.)
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Originally Posted by rotarygod
That's because it is made from a composite. Paul Yaw was going to address that issue on his supercharged race car by building an aluminum upper manifold. He had this same concern.
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-aftermarket-performance-modifications-23/turbo-intake-manifold-design-34440/ |
I just called the shop in san diego producing this turbo system and they said it's available to the public right now. They have 2 kits. The one that is available does not come with a fuel management system. The other turbo kit that is expected (how many times have we heard that) to be done in the coming weeks will include fuel management for a few a higher price of course.....
He told me they were going to try and dyno the car sometime this week to get some #'s... I'll call them back later and see how the progress is coming.... :) |
Originally Posted by SSR Engineering
My mistake, that is when we are hearing the sound, but the manifold is flexing under revs with NO LOAD, there is no boost going through the manifold and it is flexing, this is 50-100% throttle in neutral.
Having said that, I could certainly see concerns pressurizing a composite manifold that is optimized to work under a vacuum. Composites can be very strong, but they also can be more easily tailored to specific operating conditions than alloys. Moving from a vacuum to a pressurized system could easily put it outside it's "safety zone." |
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