Staying with Natural Aspiration.
 

Is it possible to gain performance with the 8 on par with a turbo or SC RX-8 while keeping it NA? I like turbos but it seems like for the hps gains per dollar it dosen't seem so feasable. From what I've searched in the forums it seems like you can get a Stage 2 canzoomer for about 1k and get a gain of about 40hps, combine that with a REVi intake and some other little mods, and you could achieve the same hps gain as at least the greddy turbo, with a lot less cost. And possibly put less stress on the engine?

So I guess my question is, what would I have to do to my 8 to give it the performance of a turbo or SC while at the same time keeping it NA and staying within a budget? If it's even possible.

Forced induction is giving you more available torque, Canzoomer will pale in comparison in this category. As for 40hp from the Canzoomer, I don't think anyone has proven to achieve that much, have they?

No way. 20 HP is the norm for tuning with CZ/emanage for cars that were running rich.

-MD

I was just basing those numbers off of the canzoomer website. They state that a Canzoomer stage 2 can wield 40+ Hp, but for off-road use only. Which tells me it wouldn't pass a exhuast check.

Realistically NO is the answer to your question. You may be able to net 20-40HP with careful tuning and full intake/exhaust. Streetporting and nitrous are the other power additives that can get your N/A well in the 13s.

Well first off with all the money spent on the NA mods necessary to get you FI power, you've probably doubled the money it would take to go FI. But if you did still want to go that route you'd probably have to get intake, exhaust, headers, ecu, miidpipe, street port, flywheel, pullies, maybe a new final gear set, and definitely some ear plugs (for how loud this car would be). Even still you won't have that useable power FI gives you. I can see why you don't want it, I don't really want FI myself, but I realize that with this car and engine, its the best way to go.

NA will cost more and your midrange will STILL feel like stomping on a rotten tomato.

Rotary+Turbo, that's how its always been

the rotary spools a turbo 3x faster than a conventional piston engine!

Word. I don't really want to deal with FI, either. I plan on adding a high-flow cat and seeing where that lands me. Then, I'll start road coursing it and work on the handling. I drool over the thought of FI, but then, I don't feel that I have a real understanding of all the nuances. I don't want to get in over my head.

Even without FI, the 9k redline and stock suspension makes this thing great on a road course. A few suspension mods yields outstanding handling. More power is great. We all want it. But I think that its easy to fall into the trap of thinking adding horses is the only way to go. If that were the case, I'd have a 400HP STI for the cost of a 280HP RX-8. The fact is, there just isn't a way to get this thing to real drag-racer status (IMO).

When I have the cat, I hope to land about 215 RWHP which I think is slightly optimistic for N/A without nitrous. We'll soon see....

-MD

Well, you are thinking about what I am doing, as others who have posted before me. I love the balance of the car while staying NA. I have (2) more performance mods to complete that long list... Headers and Pullies. Both have been bashed tremedously on the forum, so that is why I left those for last. Hopefully time will catch up to them and the engineering will be better on them by the time I am ready to buy.

But, my end goal after the warranty has expired, is to add nitrous and/or RP's axial flow SC to my NA engine. That way I can keep my NA mods in place. :D

too bad some n/a mods won't be useable with some FI applications.

I have not seen RP location of the Axial Flow SC, but it would be cool if I could keep the REVi intake. If not, I'll stay NA as Wurmfist is attempting. Then I'll just add the juice in a bottle :)

Keep in mind the 20-40hp gains ppl mention w/ the CZ aren't 'peak' gains...they are gains under the curve.

Hey Darin - you have to drive my NA and see how you like the mods.... :)

From what I've read in the AFSC thread, Richard is using the area that the REVi occupies. I don't know if they've figured out a way to keep the RB intake. :confused:

yeah, the 40+ hp figure from Canzoomer is very optimistic. I have seen dynoes anywhere from 16 to 22 whp (& that is WITH a host of mods included), but the tq gain is about 4-5 lb.-ft. This would probably be about a .2-.4 sec improvement in acceleration times. Unless you are looking to port your engine there pretty much is no way to get this NA engine to even close to turbo #'s. Not to mention the tq. #'s. BTW, I personally consider Nitrous as FI, not NA mod.

If you are looking to make NA improvements I would look at the Canzoomer ECU, straight pipe/hi-flow cat first. With the flywheel it helps, but it is a very labor intensive job, where you have to drop the tranny. If you do decide to do FI I would suggest you get the pressure plate, clutch disc & flywheel all at once, so you will only drop the tranny once.

I like what everyone has said. I'm a little leary of the pullies though because I think the power system in the 8 is already weak and I don't want to make it weaker by slowing down the alternator. Now if I can get a after-market alternator that supports the smaller pulley...

Pullie are crap. They were useless on my car & tripped the CEL.

I know you had trouble with them, but has everyone? :confused: After reading your review I held off on buying any at all.

Yeah..I'm nit-picking....BUT...

200whp is VERY achievable (Remember the guy who did that STOCK? ;) )...200whp is 'close' to turbo numbers ranging from 215-230+.

:)

From what I have read it sounds like porting is the way to go for large NA increases. You might want to look for posts from a "Mr. Port and Polish." He has done some port work on the 8.

With no evidence, or proof of his accomplishments. If I could get 240whp just from a good porting job, then I saw screw FI, I'll take an NA beast. But at the same time, the car would more than likely still be a torqueless wonder.

Nope - would NOT look for his posts - I would rather use guitarjunkie :)

EXACTLY

A lot of people are claiming CZ nets a shitload of power, but that's ONLY with other mods added, and I'm pretty sure most of the gains are from those other mods with the CZ enhancing them a bit - alone I haven't seen it gain anything appreciable.

When I get this beast tamed and under control of the CZ, I'm going to dyno my final setup. Wish me luck guys!

You're being optimistic on the NA side (usually I see high 190's) with CZ & other mods & pessimistic with the turbo side (usually in the 230-240+ range). 215 is a big anamoly & something isn't right with his car. I was running only a 40 hp gain when I first put the turbo in, but it was found I was only pushing 4 lbs. of boost.