i think what he was saying was that if this box was used as a standalone for another car then it would use the MAP. but as a piggy back on the RX ... nahh im not sure. im confused by it as well:(

I think there is a typo in the text....."stock ECU think of not having a MAP" should be "stock ECU think of not having a MAF".....???

yes that is a typo i think

They may be leaving the sensors intact so they will give the ECU the numbers it expects.....but bypass them, and run an independant system to actually run the Fuel and Ignition?

Hi Guys,
We have experience with the Microtech ecus with rotary and piston applications.. I think i can answer some of the peoples questions, if im understanding some of you guys correctly..
1. The microtech ecu piggybacks the stock ecu
2. the microtech ecu will control fuel and igntion
3. your load input will be from a on-board MAP sensor now
4. split trailing firing is RPM based
5. load based timing correction (advance /retard)
6. The stock ecu needs to be ran to control 6-port actuators and drive by wire functions


microtech directions and operation info here: www.microtechusa.com

So iam guessing this is a plug and play or do you have to cut wires.

From the Microtecusa site FAQ:

8. What Plug-in harnesses are availible?
A. Currently the 93-95 Mazda RX-7 (13bREW), Nissan 180SX (CA18DET), Nissan Skyline R32 (RB20DET), Nissan Skyline R33 (RB25DET). Honda/Acura harnesses coming soon!

but you could always get one of these:
http://www.rx7.com/store/rx8/rx8harnessadaptor.html

So how is it different from any other piggyback.

Or is it a TSI unit like the Ric Shaw's??

taka simple piggy back units take the standard computers signals and corect them to a certain degree. they have limited correction tables; tho they are getting a lot closer to the simple stand alone engine managments.

while the microtech is doing all the work it's self it is taking full control of fuel and spark. it only needs the std computer to run the drive by wire. ie when you put your foot down the std computer reads a voltage signal on the acelerator pedal and translates this to the throttle butterflys stepper motor and how far it opens. the microtech would then need to get some form of throttle position info ether from a std sensor if there is one or you need to graft one on that the microtech can get a signal from. in this setup the std computer thinks it is controlling the fuel and ignition but the wires aren't connected.

So you'll fly off the road a little faster...cool

sound slike a cel waiting to be thrown. as the pcm makes adjustments its sensors would detect that its adjustments weren't making the correct end result so it would keep trying to correct until it got to a point where its tables run out and then throw a cel because of a too lean condition or because it thought a sensor/s was/were faulty.

They say (at the usa website) "All Microtech ecu's are MAP based so you could throw out your restrictive stock MAF!" and "Just Released:


LTX8 2003+ Mitsubishi Evolution 8. Utilizing the stock coils and converts from Karman to Speed Density!

Mazda RX8 unit

LTX10 Units"

For pricing, they list LT8S $925.99 and LT12S $1099.99.

but thats when using it in a standalone situation like in a car with an engine swap. when piggy backed the maf needs to stay or the pcm wouldnt like it.

I was thinking the same thing. it taks a lot of fooling to out-smart a complex engine managment like the rx-8's. the other thing the microtch probably can't handle is the oil metering pump.

still no aftermarket can handle all the rx-8's issues like dash and alternator/generator so nothing is plug and play. if you can get the tune and refinement from an interceptor you don't realy need to go stand alone.

Nothing is plug and play in this world... everyone needs to be tuned.

Anyone know of the HKS F Con V Pro? What does it do that the other doesn't? Except I know it is 32x32 points. Rather than 16x16 that most piggyback has. The recent coverage from FEED that they have tuned the car away from their ECU replacement to HKS V Pro.

During the last motorshow here a month back, i did ask the Motec guys and they say their currently still working on our 8. I would have expected the m800 to be able to fully run our 8. Guess not..

Anyways, i have also been snooping around our local HKS distirbutor and he has told me V Pro can be installed on our 8 and will fully control all the functions (not sure about the trailing issue though...) However, he also said that HKS Japan after R&Ding , doesnt really encourage people to install it coz there are meagre gains in terms of HP. Max of 15 to 20 only...

Here it will cost a couple of grands to install the V Pro ( add a few more for tuning n stuff...) and so dont think anyone here has installed it yet...

Good news is, HKS is now looking into incorporating the whole works into the SZ series ( which is cheaper) to give the same amount of gains as the V Pro. Last i remembered will only be out by Spring 05....

Cheers

Exciting as it is ... the newer piggyback is nearly as doing the same stuff as the ECU replacement.

I am not 100 % sure if the V Pro does ignition tuning and fuel loading on its own or done via the air flow meter and the stock ECU. I much prefer the former.

I think V Pro still do the latter... which is not 100% good. I still waiting for Motec then. Hope, and they better be availble in M800 model, because they have split map and there is a chance we can do the leading plug one map and trailing plug in the other map.

Screw the split, just remove the trailing plugs and throw some bolts in the plug holes. Then you can boost on 87 oct!! Trailing plugs are overated. ;)

Anyone else herd of the "buttplug"?

Only at full throttle are they fairly worthless. The trailings affect you more at part throttle and when it comes to emissions. Too bad the RX-8 fires the trailings first at startup and idle.

Disconnect the trailing plugs, I promise you will be fine. You will not be able to pass an emissions test but it will allow you to tune for some very nice low end torque. (higher than normal a/f ratios)

Surly you have herd of the all mighty "Anti Det. Device" ;)

wow i learn something every day

Do not try that if you own an RX-8. It won't run.

:eek: how did you know i was going to try it ;) good thing imagine them people looking at me at the track when my car wont luanch :mad: they told me it would give me more torque ;)

It'll run, it just won't idle.;)
You lose a bunch of mid-throttle response as well.
Ask me how I know. :p

Under full power, the difference between stock timing split, no timing split, and leading only firing is very minimal. There is a very slight difference but not really enough to feel. At part throttle it is a far different story though. Timing split plays a huge role in emissions, gas mileage, and part throttle power. Having no trailing plugs will not increase your low end or anywhere else.

The RX-8 starts and idles with the trailing plugs firing ahead of the leading. This is why you can't do it on these cars. It's a waste of time to fully remove the trailing plugs on a rotary anyways. It is really the poor, cheap, lazy mans way of trying to avoid detonation with forced induction. It is worthless on a naturally aspirated rotary.

MM: Did you ever get the exhaust flange template made?