Dealer and REVi
 

Told by my dealer that the 'tech' has highlighted that I have modified my car (REVi) and that at a recent Mazda training session, he was told he needed to inform me that this would void my emissions warranty and potentially other engine related warranty issues.

Others have the same experience? We can always put the OEM intake back on...

Its an intake...smack them upside the head with it. ;)

Bullshit.
They must prove that the modification is directly responsible for any damage before they can void any warranty - and they are unable to do that.

^exactly, it's scare tactics IMO

how can they say the catalytic converter failed because of an intake? doesn't make sense whatsoever :p

Hello Everyone,

I have been spending a lot of time reading through the Issues and Problems area, specifically posts made by "Abbidd" (I feel for you, MAN!). Whose warranty has been voided by Mazda North America.
This is why I have stopped taking my car to the dealership. Not that they have mis-treated me, but "little" things like this would REALLY piss me off.
My impression is that Mazda is starting to "circle the wagons" and protect themselves. They have a very good car (RX-8), but a somewhat questionable engine (when pushed or even slightly modified, compared to a regular PISTON engine). Rather than working with its customers, they are now beginning to enforce anything that can possibley be considered "modded" within the engine, exhaust OR intake. Which will result in a possible threat of voiding the warranty.

It is sad because the RX-8 is an exceptional handling daily driver car. My suggestion for anyone, unless you have a reason to take it to the dealership, don't! If you do, put the car back to its original state, if possible.

Otherwise, expect to be hassled...

You need to buy the shop techs pizza everytime you go in for service. Get to know your master tech like your beer drinking buddy, and all will be fine.

first i will say i'm not endorsing the actions of the dealer at all


BUT - its very easy to prove the REVi can lean out air/fuel ratio's which is PROVEN to increase exhaust temps which is PROVEN as being detrimental to catalytic convert life. Because the REVi also is not CARB certified, if the car flunks an emissions test they CAN blame it on the REVi.

i ran into this with my wrx, my family owns a mazda dealership and anytime i wanted to get warranty work done at the local sub. dealership they always gave me crap because the kids who worked there knew i had a mod'd wrx. so they were like OMG yea he beats that thing so bad, so anyways this all led to a voided warranty on the powertrain and engine, but all and all im way happier with the 8 than i ever was w/ my wrx
:p subaru is the worst company to get warranty claims done with ever IMO

wont the ECU eventually learn and fix any lean air/fuel mixtures caused by the REVi?

Have you been drinking already??? :D

The ECU have proven time and time again how hard it is to stray too far from faactory specs even with significant modifications done to the car. Heck, why do you think Interceptor-x costs so much???

Just tell your "friendly" Mazda service tech that you will have a conversation with your lawyer regarding a little law called the Magnusson-Moss Act and I bet they will sing a different tune.

I have tuned my CZ to run well above the factory afr for over a year now without the ecu doing squat in that year. So tell me why thats not possible? Don't believe everything you read on here...

It is completely debateable if the ecu would ever completely richen out the air/fuel mixture in open loop areas above 5500 rpms. It if it does learn the box completely and completely richen the map, you might as well rip the REVi out because at that point its a $330 paperweight.

The dealership is not legally allowed to void your warranty for that. That would be as ridiculous as them voiding your warranty because you used a paper airfilter from Autozone instead of from them or any oil and filter brand other than what they sell. It's ridiculous. The issue isn't that Mazda honestly cares. They don't and they know that the intake can not hurt your car. It's the dealerships that try to screw everyone over. They don't want to take the time to do any work for free if they don't have to.

Mazda does NOT have a somewhat questionable engine in regards to the rotary. It is a very strong and durable engine. Like every other engine on the planet, it needs to be tuned properly in order to not blow up. We just see alot of people tune them badly.

The REVi will not change emissions so much that it will even register as a noticable difference. Yes you can still get a gain from it. It will not make the exhaust noticable hotter and can in no way be attributed to shortened cat life. There is no proof anywhere. It takes more than just an intake to do that.

Of course I hope I never have to cross that bridge but the way this evolved suggests to me that Mazda is indeed, circling the wagons by educating their techs to create a paper trail.

It all smacks of cover your A$$ stuff.

At the bottom of my service sheet reads:

Comments........
Note Engine has modified intake system installed aftermarket
Emission Warranty Void

When I questioned the service writer I got - you guessed it - "Nothing I can do, we are told we have to do that" I am not too worried about it. If the cat fails whatever that means, it will be a good reason to replace it with a high flow...

Next week comes the RB Ram Air...

Hey, what gives with them charging me for 5 quarts of oil when we know the change only takes about 60% of that or so???

Peace folks

if so, get the rest of the oil back for refill later when ur engine burn some of the oil :)

There is an estimated cat temp equation that was patented by GM which looks at only a/f ratio and maf (i believe our ecu even use this). The REVi will supposedly increase maf and at least from what i have seen on this forum increases the a/f ratio (probably could prove it does). Therefore the cat temp will go up (even if its only maf that increases). The most common failure of a cat is from being overheated. You can talk to any cat manufacturer and they will tell you that cat life is inversely proportional to cat temp. Do you seriously think in a court of law I couldn't prove the REVi could have rapidly degraded a cat?


Again, I personally think the dealer is pulling a bunch of BS... but realistically I could see them perhaps winning.

i agree with rotor they could push it that far if they wanted too. i wonder how a carb cert would effect the arguement/outcome?

besides which the filter is oiled and mazdais on record saying they recommend against oiled filter cause the oil can ruin the maf which will cause you engine to not run correctly

Yeah actually I do believe that. It had better be actual physical proof. Not just theory on paper. I've literally had a cat so hot that it was glowing, and I've had it happen to the same one over and over and it lived for a very long time after that. Cats are tough objects but sometimes you will just get one that was built bad. A half a point of a/f ratio difference will make no difference whatsoever to cat life. It won't even feel it as that isnt' that great if a temperature difference. It would have to be seriously over rich or seriously over lean for a long time before there would be any ill effects. The REVi will not give this drastic a change. Therefore the argument is pure speculative bs and can not be proven without a shadow of a doubt. That's what counts in court. You can't prove it.

They plan on getting a certificate in the future so it's a moot point.

http://www.sema.org/main/semaorghome.aspx?ID=50096
http://www.sema.org/Main/SemaOrgHome.aspx?ID=50100

I would call Mazda and tell them what the dealer said and argue that Federal Law prohibits them from voiding your warranty and that they have to prove that it caused failure of your emissions system before they can deny you service and void your warranty. If they have voided your emissions warranty already, they are clearly violating the law. If your cat craps out and they refuse to fix it because of the intake, they have to prove it caused that to fail before they can void your warranty. The first link actually has a good process you should follow to fight this.

Great information - Thanks!!

I don't really see a need to pursue this right now as I don't have any emissions problems. There is the only the threat of an issue and I would rather let it lie until I do.

If they have voided your warranty, I would go back and bitch until they unvoid it just out of principal. If you have a problem later down the road and they can prove the intake caused it, then fine, but until you have a problem, they have no right to void your warranty already.

I'd be fighting this right away. That way if something does go wrong, you won't be in the middle of a warranty battle, worrying about when the heck you're going to get your Rx-8 back.

You folks saying to go to the dealership and bitch them out to have your warranty "unvoided" are funny. Yes, per the Magnusson-Moss Act, they must prove that whatever you modded caused a failure somewhere in the car. And, yes, you can hire an attorney and take them court and all that happy horseshit. But do you have the money to keep an attorney on retainer for the long haul to prove your point? You know Mazda will do everything in their power to drag the case out, hoping that you just give up for fear of going broke.

What more do I have to prove to the common person on the jury? The cat failed (can prove that). Failure was caused or promoted from overheating (Mazda can bring in anyone from a cat manufacturer to testify to this). The intake will cause increase temperatures (Mazda can bring in any engineer to testify to this). Its A+B=C thinking that any jury will eat up in a second.

So you are saying he should just roll over and take it from Mazda? FEDERAL LAW says they can't void his warranty unless they can prove it caused damage. Regardless of whether they can prove it, they can't legally void his warranty right now, JUST for adding the intake. If he has an emission failure and has to get it fixed under warranty, THEN, they can dual it out, but as it stands now, they can't void the warranty. If it was me, I would raise hell. I would start by calling my local news stations investigative reports teams. Attack a major corporation....they'd be all over it.