Let me see if I have this right ...
 

A "pre-wax cleaner" is also known as "polish" and also known as "swirl remover"?

link.

I was hoping that somebody would answer this question, especially because I'm wondering about the same thing.

In addition, does it make sense to use polish/ cleaner / swirl remover on a new (black) car? It seems to me that these products are abrasives (?) and that they shouldn't be used indiscriminately-- only if a car actually needs it.

Anybody have an answer?

NMO-

I found this link in one of the threads here. http://www.bettercarcare.com/articles.php?articleId=17

It's still not clear to me. Let me know if you can figure it out.

http://autopia-carcare.com/inf-polishing.html
 

Try this one.

This link may be helpful: http://www.web-cars.com/detail/polish.php

To add to that article, polishes are not necessarily swirl-mark removers (SMR). It depends on the abrasiveness of the polish's ingredients. Sometimes, a polish is only used to clean and add shine to the paint surface prior to waxing. Sometimes, as with Meguiar's and Mother's 3-step processes, the polish is for shine and minor swirl removal (Step 1 paint cleaner is more for the old-wax removal rather than the Step 2 polish). In any case, with my experience with polishes so far, they don't do a stellar job in removing swirls. Verdict is still out as to whether they actually improve the car's appearance after waxing, since our paint is still relatively new.

Utente, I've polished my 8 before. I used to do it more frequently than I do now, but I've cut back on it just because I don't have the time any longer to detail my car for 4+ hours.

That being said, I do think there is value in polishing new paint, although it isn't necessary (see the bettercarcare.com article you linked to, above): 1) it removes some contaminants that simple washing might have failed to remove, 2) it enhances shine, 3) it allows for better adhesion between the paint surface and the wax (which equals better wax durability), and 4) it doesn't hurt to do it (unless you use improper technique or poor materials). As I just mentioned, though, I'm still not entirely sure if polishing makes a significant difference in look. I did neglect to polish before I waxed last time, however, and I didn't think my car looked as shiny as when I'd pre-wax polished it the time before.

markd-

Thanks for your advice. I'm a little wary of using any abrasive on my car unless it will help to solve a problem. If there's no problem, I'm not sure that I want to do that. Of course, if it's not abrasive, then there's no problem.

clay seems to be a less aggressive option. Any experience with clay? Most of the posts I've seen here seem to say that clay is easy to use and produces good-- non-abrassive-- results. Only 1 or 2 seems to say that clay is tricky to use.

Thanks, markd. I thought that page I linked to was simplifying things a bit. It only confused me more.

I bought a 2004, new, in December and it seems to have some swirl marks. I'm still trying to figure out my plan of attack.

Before I speak any further about clay, I found a glossary of detailing terms, and it gives a definition for polish (or lack thereof): http://www.properautocare.com/glosofdetter.html. Interesting read.

Obviously, an "abrasive" polish is only good for "removing" swirl marks (technically, it doesn't 'remove' them; its abrasive particles buff out the sharp edges of a scratch, so you don't see it as well). If you don't have swirl marks, then you're right, it wouldn't make sense to use an abrasive product.

Clay shouldn't be tricky to use. Almost all clays (except the ones you buy in bulk) come with a quick detailer (QD) spray. You douse the paint surface with QD (or water) and then glide the clay on the QD'd areas. Simple enough :) Here are a couple of quick how-to guides:

http://www.web-cars.com/detail/clay.php
http://www.bettercarcare.com/articles.php?articleId=14
http://www.properautocare.com/usclaybartor.html

Sadly enough, I have had a clay bar system for several months now, but I haven't taken it out of its packaging. I really need it for my rear bumper, too, where a lot of dirt debris seems to kick up and stick, but I keep forgetting to bring the clay with me when I go to detail my car.

NMO: How deep are the swirl marks? If there are a lot, I imagine it's probably the dealer's fault in using a dirty pad on an orbital buffer to clean the car before they turned her over to you. I've used only a couple of SMR-specific products that I can speak of, so I'll give you the low-down on what I tried to use on my brother's black Mazda6, which had a lot of swirl marks as well:

Meguiar's ScratchX--Mild abrasive. Didn't really work for me. I didn't really notice a big improvement on the scratches. They were still there after all the sweat and toil. You really have to rub this stuff into the paint in order to get the abrasives to wear down the scratches. Some people have had better luck than I did with this product.

Meguiar's Step #1 Paint Cleaner + Step #2 Polish--Supposed to remove mild swirl marks but didn't find that either, even when used in conjunction with each other, really got rid of all the scratches. Honestly, I think they only concealed the scratches--swirl marks are visible because their sharp edges reflect light differently from the rest of the paint surface, so it seems like the Paint Cleaner and Polish tried to make the rest of the paint shinier, thus diminishing the visibility of the scratches, rather than buffing them out.

Meg's NXT wax--This actually did some good with the scratches. Didn't get rid of them (you can tell by the way the scratches re-appeared after the car was washed), but it concealed some of the smaller scratches. I think it might have filled in those scratches with wax. Of course, it also made the paint surface glossier, so you could not see the scratches unless you looked more closely at the car.

EO Nano Wax--This stuff is supposed to fill in swirl marks, but I have not heard many positive reviews for this wax on that matter. I'm currently experimenting with Nano (updates to that thread coming soon) but haven't used it on my brother's 6. I only have a few deeper-than-"light" scratches on my car, but the Nano did not resolve them. In Nano's defense, I doubt any non-SMR-specific product could.

Really, NMO, from what I have heard and read from others here and on Autopia, it's very difficult to remove swirl marks by hand. It's best to do it with an orbital because it moves so fast and tirelessly that it has the ability to work an abrasive compound into the marred areas and really buff them out. If you don't want to invest your time or money into purchasing and learning how to use an orbital, then I suggest getting a reputable detailing shop to do your car for you one time (price ranges vary--my friend got his black Tahoe done for $45, but someone else here in VA said the cost was much more). After that, you can take over and pamper your car on your own :)

I don't know what they said, but they might have meant that it's tricky to use correctly. Really, about the only thing you can do wrong is to drag something gritty embedded in the clay and scratch the car. If you keep reshaping it, you keep getting a fresh surface, and the spray limits the abrasiveness. But if you drop it on the ground, better toss it and get a new one.

I'm new to this level of car care, but I've used clay (on the beater, as a test, though).

Thanks for an EXCELLENT post!
The swirls are not that pronounced. If you look into the reflection of the sun, you see some concentric lines. And I'm sure you're right about this being from the way the car was treated before they sold it.

When I'm sure that good weather is here to stay -- maybe later this month -- I hope to spend a day on a thorough detailing. As I've posted here before, I was dumb enough to buy the dealer sealant, which came with a renewal kit that claims it only needs to be done twice a year. I'll see what the results are -- hopefully with before-and-after pics to post.

But I'm sort of preparing myself to be disappointed with the products and thinking about my other options.

Hiya NMO,

If the swirl marks are superficial, you might want to try Zaino Z-5. It doesn't polish them out (it has no abrasives), but it blends them in to the point they totally disappear. I had some light swirl marks on mine (from the dealer), and after applying the Z-5, I couldn't find them. At all. I put the Z-5 on about 2 months ago, and to date I still can't see the swirls. So it would appear that the Z-5 lasts decently too.

HTH,
Bill

Thanks, Bill. Because I'm still learning, I think I'd prefer something non-abrasive like that.

3M makes a pretty good swirl mark remover the number is 39009 this is for dark cars and can be used with a machine or by hand like I did and it seemed to take a good bit of them out, and even the Zaino site recommends this product when there are too may swirls for Z-5 to address.

go to lowes and buy a obital buffer.... then go to http://www.properautocare.com/index.html
and buy the pads and waxes, polishes etc...

I like Menzerna Products