Wing = Autocross legal? (factory vs. dealer option)
 

I can't find the answer to this anywhere - is the stock wing a factory option or a dealer option? Apparently, factory options are allowed under stock class for autox, but dealer options are not. I like how the wing looks, so I'd like to get it if I could, but if it'll take me out of stock for autox, screw it. :)

The standard wing is a factory stand alone option, added ours after we got the car. However the Mazda Speed, dealer wing, is not legal in stock or SP.

Someone else reading here may know this, and if not, I'm sure that a search would turn up the answer, but... If I remember right, the wing, appearance package and such are actually port installed options, which usually aren't allowed in Stock. But because the cars can be ordered "from the factory" with them, and thus appear on the invoice, Monroney sticker, etc they're okay. This is different from a number of port installed options that were (still are?) available for the WRX that are not Stock legal.

Most of the WRX port installed options are actually legal. I can't think of any that aren't with the exeption of the 17" wheel upgrade (which is no longer an issue as the '06 comes standard with 17s now). And the 17s used to show up on the Moroney Label since '02... and they were never allowed in stock even with that as evidence. For 5 years, many wrote in to the SCCA to have 17s allowed as they were an option... to no avail.

--kC

I'm puzzled by the rule against wings and body kits in Stock. Surely aerodynamics isn't a factor at autocross speeds?

Also the rule against aftermarket pedals just baffles me.

The fact that some street prepared and SM cars have monster wings on them suggests that they do something though less than in a true track situation. If you try to understand the rules or make them make sense, you will experience eternal frustration. Just know and abide by them.

I guess related to that, it sounds like the appearance package is a factory option too then? I ask because the only decently-priced 05 in the area has the appearance package, unfortunately, so I might end up with it.

if you generically allow "body kits," you'll suddenly see a lot of bumperless cars in stock.

"My body kit is... no body panels!"

Or all carbon body kits. :rock:

I have seen aero numbers for autox speeds, the SMAC is working on new rules for wings and have all kinds of down force numbers and programs to run them, and there are cars in SM and ST now with wings and front splitters making down force at autox speeds. :Eyecrazy:

Do you think that this mod is Stock legal?

The comfort and convenience exclusion is kind of a gray area, but when you desribe it the way that you did, it sounds like you're making a case for the performance benefit.

:dunno:

I would say not legal.

Poke? :)

LOL so true... I guess it's kinda like the Income Tax code. :dunno:

Yeah, I guess that would kinda suck either way. :(

Really?!? I thought aerodynamics was negligible at autox speeds? Then again, my knowledge of aerodynamics approaches the square root of zero, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

You mentioned SMAC (?) having down force numbers and programs to run them? Can you elaborate or provide a link? I'm more interested in splitter/spoiler/wing info primarily for track use.

The real answer is that ANY downforce helps. The bigger the wing, the more downforce. Look at the phantom - it virtually exists solely due to its massive downforce, for autocross. It just depends how big the wing is.

You would have to be on the SMAC or SEB to get at the info. I would have never thougth the stuff would work at autox speeds but a big enough wing with enough rake and you can make it work.

I don't see why it wouldn't be legal? I understand that in ST the rules say that "Pedal kits and other interior cosmetic accessories may be added." But that mod you referenced doesn't add other non-stock parts. It's just an adjustment to a stock part. Can people get away with having a wood block added to a pedal to make it easier to reach?

Of course, this is all academic since my driving isn't near to being competitive... yet. ;)

You have created an adjustment that Mazda did not build into the car and is not in the shop manual so that you can heel and toe better, which would be a performance advantage.

No different that bending a part of the suspension to get more camber.

You can not modify the pedal in any way in stock. However you could add something to your shoe that would make it easier to reach.

it's only cheating if you get caught right?

seriously, I agree with the guy that said dont try to understand it, just try to obay it.

like the no MS wing in BSP thing. i mean come on like it helps more then the 8" spoiler.... what ever I wont get into that one again Jason is proly sick of hearing me compain about it. :)

thats funny add something to your shoe, but not the pedal...... so true.... so true.

If you beat me on Sun with your new 285s I will get you DQed for your wing. :yelrotflm

There are some rules that seem silly to the guy that wants to put on the NOPI tuner crap wing that is just for looks. What you have to do is look at the big picture, if we open something like that up someone will take it to the extreme.

he he he, thats funny.... and not funny. :) 185's AND lighter wheels. i MIGHT be able to at least get close to you by now! ;) I was only 1 second off your time last time (right?)


yeah thats true, but thats why there should be a limit as to how tall it can be.... liek say 6 or 8" i.
f its a 2 foot wing, I can understand the concern.



if you get me DQ'ed for the wing, I will get you DQ'ed for being a national champ.... thats as good as cheating. ;)

One bad thing about the appearance pkg is that a cone hit to the front could kill it, that front part is thin.

btw you have a pm about a 06'' for sale.

Hmm... rats. :( Well, that helps me understand the "spirit of the law," so to speak. Thanks for the info.

Is there anything in stock class you can do to lower the car? Maybe something like shocks with a lower spring perch or something? Anything?

I beg to differ about SP as I believe it would be fully legal in SP as long as the car is set up to STU specs. (read: no SP specific modifications that aren't legal in ST... stuff like boost, fenders, non-airbag steering wheels, etc...)

Wings are allowed in STU, and it's legal to have a car setup to STU rules in its appropriate SP class. As long as you don't do SP mods that aren't legal in STU, then the RX8 is legal, with a wing, any wing that meets ST rules, in its SP class.

Since STU doesn't have a rim width restrction, and tire width for the ST in SP car is overruled (must comply with 15.3), any wheel/tire/r-compound is allowed. :)

--kC

The cars we have here in BSP with the MazdaSpeed wing also have light flywheels, so they can not use the STU loop hole. :wavey:

The original post said nothing about a flywheel??

I was just stating "a way" for any RX8 that is mildly modified (via Wing) to STU specs on r-compounds that would have a place to play other than SM.

--kC

That sounds like a great idea.... Give up a light flywheel, no cat, after market fuel injection and other misc SP items so you can run a ricer wing. :mdrmed:

Only a subi driver would think that is a good idea. :stickpoke

Where did I say it was good? Sheesh.

All I'm saying is that you can run the wing in SP, there is a way to do it. I never said that it would be 'good' if you get there that way. :)

Some things on my wish list would bump me out of stock. When I get to that point I'll do it anyway. If it puts me in STU, so be it. :dunno: Autocross is just for fun, anyway. :D:

That's my philosphy. I did what I did to my car because I wanted to. So what if I end up in STU.

At least... that's what I used to think.

Now I'm kinda regretting it because I get stuck in STU class with 4 STis where I get :spank: while the RX8 in BS with V710s comes in first place.

Oh well... it's just for fun... right?

Can I even be competivive with better wheels, tires, and a lot more practice or is this a lost cause in STU class?

That's pretty much what my attitude was with my alltrac. I modified it however I wanted, and whatever class it put me in, so be it. I ended up firmly in SM, but the car actually competes decently well in SM, so it's not too bad. =)

The problem with just modifying a car and playing in classes is that you can't tell how you're doing compared to other people. I've started running more and more autox's in my dad's AS S2000, because it gives me a much better idea how I'm progressing. Having an RX-8 with shocks and 710s in BS will be even better for that purpose. I'm buying the RX-8 primarily to have a car that I will not modify, to be a DD for years to come that I don't have to worry about, and by keeping myself to BS rules, this helps ensure that goal greatly.

So, there's two good reasons for people to stick in BS. =)

good point! and the nice thing about BS is it's not like you cant do ANYTHING. the V710's alone make it fun.

Struts
Front Sway bar
Cat back
V710's
Light Wheels
drop in filter

that's not a bad list of parts. only thing I think BS is missing is springs. I am sure they have their reasons for not allowing it. (then again some of the rules dont make any sense to me)

Hey Speed.... Maybe if you adjusted your wing for more downforce you would not have spun out last weekend. :mdrmed:

he he he, there you go.... I dont think the wing would have been enough to compensate for my stupidity. :)

also dont want to draw attention to the non legal wing. ;)

Hell, in the SCCA DC region B-Stock is a sh*tload more competitive than STU. In the last event the top 4 B-Stockers were like within a fraction of a second of each other. There's more of a spread in STU here. I haven't got the time to get serious about autox'ing, so I'll probably just run where it's more fun. :D: