Track pads and durability
 

I'm trying to decide what pads to get for HPDE events. My goal is to have consistent stopping power over a ~25 minute session and preferably not have to swap out the rear pads for the street. I am expecting to swap out front pads for daily driving, but would prefer to get away with not doing that at the rear...

Compounds I am considering are:

Hawk DTC60: reasonably priced for a dedicated track pad. I have not tried this compound in the past. Not sure if I can get away with leaving this compound on the rear for daily driving.

RC5+: Expensive compared to the above, but my past experience with this material tells me it works well from cold and can be daily driven without significant noise or dust issues. I also liked the feel I had from this pad.

RC6E: Endurance compound similar to the above. Even more expensive, but might be more economical over a season if it lasts longer.

Carbotech XP10/12: I've tried these but they were not my favorites compared to some similarly priced options.

How hot do the rears get compared to the front? Assuming I'll need a full race compound up front, could I get away with a more economical choice like an HPS or HP+ at the rear?

Would mixing HPS or HP+ with something like DTC60 up front result in balance issues?

I've also tried Ferodo DS2500 and DS1.11 on track in the past, but it doesn't look like those are available for this car.

I guess that leaves me with the following possible combinations:

1. DTC60 front and rear. Will have to see if I can leave it on the rear for street driving.

2. DTC60 front, HPS or HP+ rear. Will have to see what the balance is like.

3. RC5+ front and rear, or RC6E front/RC5+ rear. I expect this to work well, but $$$

4. DTC60 front, RC5+ rear. Might be the best compromise between performance and $$$.

Of course, there are many other options, so I'm looking for some input on what works based on real experience.

i used hawk hps ceramic pads for my hpde in july in virginia it was a hot day, and i did not notice any brake fad and was real consistant throughout the day, only thing is they do not have the initial bite of like a regular hps+ pad,

but i perfer it that was since it was consistant throught both days 3-4 sessions a day 30-45 mins a session

If you are going to run DTC60's you will want to swap them back if you plan on daily driving the car...If you are just going back and forth to the track you would be OK to leave them in. They should last for 5-6 days with a lot of hours...or most of a season for normal HPDE type driving

DTC60 front and HP+rear or HPS rear won't work that well...the rear pads will overheat if you are using the fronts anywhere near their potential

Most of the motorsports pads make poor daily drivers...so if you are going to bother changing out the fronts you might as well do the rears at the same time....really would only add 10-15 minutes to the time it takes to do the fronts

Mmm, thanks for the input.

I find it hard to believe I won't overheat anything less than a full race pad, but maybe I need to re-calibrate my thinking for a car that comes from the factory with properly sized brakes.

Perhaps I should just plan to change out the full set. As you say, it is only another 10-15 min to do the rear, especially since I will be swapping wheels anyway.

If I can get 5-6 HPDE days out of a set of front pads I'll be quite happy...

the brakes on the rx8 are fantastic stock, gotta try and remeber that, and i kept my stock pads on the rear. for both events

i also went to about 8 auto x's last year with the hps ceramics on the front and stocks on the rear, fronts are about 60% now and rears about 40% now, (i replace only the front pads to the ceramics at about 8k miles in)

Also if you end up going with a streetable track pad like the hp+ so you don't have to chang pads at every event, make sure to check the pad thickness before each event. In 1.7 months I got three hpd days and about 4k miles on the pads and they were done :)

What tyres are you using? ... that plays a huge role in pad selection.
DTC-60 pads are extremely aggressive and track-only oriented. Unless you're running with full slicks and are so experienced that you brake like a driver HT-10 would be a better choice imho.
Also avoid ceramic pads. They're absolutely not meant for track use. If one feels fine with them it only means he's not braking hard enough (read: he's sloooow).

I'm with bse. HT-10's is likely all you'll need. Still not really streetable though. If you're running R-comps or Hoho's give the DTC0-60's a shot.

heeroguy. This conversation is far above the level you are commenting on. No one pushing at the track would last 2 sessions on Ceramics. If you're braking properly, you'll over heat ceramics in the first flying lap. This also isn't auto-x. Bare minimum, run HP+ at an HPDE. HPS won't even last a weekend either.

Bse....interesting. Do you think the dtc-60s would be too much for a street tire like the Yok AD08? I was thinking about going dtc-60 in the front and ht-10 in the rear with the AD08s.

I don't have any experience with that tyre but yes, dtc-60 pads would most likely be too much. Ideally you want a pad that doesn't cause lockup immediately after slamming the brake pedal. Tires and suspension setups often determine how much you can brake before locking up... tires because of grip, suspension\weight\chassis setups because of weight transfer.
I'm also against using different compounds on ABS equipped systems, the computer needs a certain f\r balance which some different pad compounds throw into the trash bin. It's something one has to test for himself and it varies with the actual car, tyre, track conditions...
Now, if you have a non-abs car with individual master cylinders and a proportioning valve that would be completely different story ;)

^ cow bell boy beat me to it.


For what it's worth, my buddy tried DTC-60's when he had his almost track only e36 m3 and went back to HT-10's. Even on r-comps it had too much initial bite which locked him up too easy, which killed all of his modulation. He moved on to Performance Friction products which he is now in love with. They don't make anything for the 8 though.

Even on Hawk HP+, it takes a lap at the track to heat them up. HP+ lasted me 7 weekends or so on NT01s. IMO, I wouldn't go with a more aggressive compound for street/track.

Wow, thanks for all the input. I am planning on getting some 255/40/17 street tires. Just seen the new Direzza ZII is on tirerack now (although not in stock yet) so will probably try those.

My previous experience tells me I am hard on brakes, and I would end up spending half my time managing the brakes but I know part of that was the car... I have never had any trouble modulating the brakes due to too much bite, but I would have trouble with inconsistency due to overheating, and perhaps sometimes under-heating, the pads.

I used to have brake fade which I attributed to the pads where in reality it was brake fluid related. A full replacement with Motul RBF600 took care of it.

The Yokohama AD08 is just a good street tire, a max competition brake pad is not a good choice

^ Thanks for the info. :)

I got the HP+ pads a bit hot last summer and left deposits on the rotors (though I never experienced any fade) and thought I would upgrade to a better pad. I guess I'll stick with the HP+ pads until I can get a set of track tires.

I hate HP+ pads with a passion. I wouldn't any more run a 1990s brake pad than I would a 1990s tire.

I was referring to the DTC60, thats a serious competition pad

I just bought a set of EBC yellow stuff for my daily driver RX-8, they may be too aggressive for daily use but we shall see.

They sell these pads as both track and daily driving pads, worth a look if you want a multi-purpose pad.

Nah, i wouldn't even bother with EBC pads.
5 letters are all you need to describe them: junk ;)

Tried yellow/green EBC on my truck for tow duty. When they wore out I just went with standard semi-metallic pads and liked them much better. Well except for the dust, but they stop much better over ther life and at max load which is all I care about.

+5! the old Hawk pads are the stone axe of brake pads.

we switched to performance friction years ago, and they are almost unbelievably good, the drivers love the modulation, the car stops, pad life is excellent (we can do a 25 hour without changing pads), rotor wear is nearly zero, and even the brake dust is not corrosive.

i don't have any experience with the DTC Hawks.

I have used the HT10's on all 4 corners, DTC60 front and HT10 rears, and DTC60 front and rear...I didn't find the balance changed noticebly with the HT10 or DTC60 in the rear...so I don't see much point in running them like that. The HT10 didn't last as long, and they are basically similar price

If you are tracking hard...just try the DTC60 front and rear...I think you will like them.

You don't want to run them as DD pads though.....they are not inspiring cold ;)

I 3rd the Hawk opinions, they make the oems feel not so bad, but offer you a alternative not mentioned here, i.e., Cobalt Friction Technologies

Search for lots of info on them in the forum. They are exemplary track pads for the RX-8 offering several friction compounds to suit ability level, give a high confidence level in track use, have low wear rates, never fade, don't beat up your rotors, and have been RX-8 race team tested. To boot, they remain very streetable for casual use if you don't mind a bit of noise 5-0mph.

I quite like the Racing Brake XT960 pads. Good bite, minimal fade and they're durable.

Cobalt Friction is what I have on now.