Schroth belt questions
 

So im looking for some extra holding power for autox and ive been looking at the schroth belts that can be used with oem seats.

i know i remember 1 or 2 people who bought one. Just curious how it mounted to the car.

My brother bought one for his mini cooper a few months back and i helped with the install so i understand how it works, except for 1 thing.

On his mini cooper the shoulder belts went through the headrest and then clipped into the back seats seatbelt clips. That part is the same for our car.

then the right side of the belt clipped into the oem seatbelt clip in location. That part is also the same..

BUT, for the left side.... a new anchor was made, it was attached to the bolt holding the seatbelt to the frame of the car on the side.
PICTURE IS FOR ILLUSTRATION PURPOSES.
http://www.bobshotrods.com/wp-conten...stall-0861.jpg

im basically talking about the belt that is towards the bottom bolted into the car.

MY QUESTION: since we have that bar that the seatbelt ties into, how does this work for our car?

Does anyone know?


THIS BELT WILL ONLY BE USED IN AUTOX ENVIRONMENTS. I am fully aware of the risks associated with using a harness without a roll bar/cage.

I have not been able to find any pictures of a harness install either. Would be nice to find out how its done.

There is a bolt on both ends of the bar ...and there is a spacer washer that could be removed when the belt retainer is added.

You have to try it to see :)

We won't go into why harnesses are a bad idea without rollover protection...I have beaten that to death in another thread ;)

duh i didnt see that you posted here i just sent you a pm for nothing then lol, thanks!

Do you have any pictures on how you mounted yours?

And yeah, strictly for autox use. I dont think i could flip it in a parking lot if i tried.

"We won't go into why harnesses are a bad idea without rollover protection...I have beaten that to death in another thread"

I have seen that.

yeah, and ive beaten it to death in other threads too lol.

as long as its used in a autox environment, i think it will do its only job of keeping me in place perfectly fine.

I think it would also be incredibly hard to flip a car at autox.

I used proper eyelet bolts in the seatbelt and seat mounting bolts... and attached to the rollbar in the rear. You could attach them to the rear seatbelt bolts on some way. Difficult part is finding the correct eyelet bolts

like from a hardware store?

Some kind of motorsports store. They are specific for mounting harness ends to. The seatbelt bolts are easy because they are an SAE thread. The seat bolts are metric and difficult to find

would it be easier to use a belt system with built in snaps for seatbelts?

i just found this one by takata. Looks similar to the one my brother got for his mini.

http://www.takataracing.com/pimg/sm/74000-H2.ECE.jpg

Do you think its easier to find a clip in system like the pic above, or a bolt in system? I think i would like a clip in system more so that i can retain my back seat functionality and just unclip them when someone needs to get into the car.

ah ok.

I have the Schroth Rally 4. They do not make the seat belt buckle version for our cars. Even if they do, it requires you to bolt in additional buckles.

It looks like this:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-q...2520_00567.JPG

And works great. I understand that if I roll the car over, my head may have an issue, but I have room to move side to side and forward and still am nicely planted in the seat.

I talked with the folks at the company, and the PCA DE leadership on the installation. I have hard bolted the belts to either a seat attach point or a seatbelt attach point.

The Rally 4 has a connector in the middle that disconnects, you can make the belts almost disappear. I leave them on during the DE season, and tuck them away between events. I remove them in the winter.

The Schroth belts have an anti-submarine tab. This makes them street legal. A lot of tuner belts are not street legal. The mechanics of how this works are a different post.

I got mine from Apex Performance, ask for Linda. I did not find them at any of our usual vendors. Linda actually found them for me in the first place.
Schroth Rallye 4 Street Legal ASM Harnessbelt



If you want mounting details..

Here is the front center attach point on the seat mount (under the rail).

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-m...2520_00560.JPG


Here is the outboard front attach point...

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-I...2520_00561.JPG


Here is the inboard rear attach point, by far the easiest on to get to. Sorry about angle of the camera..

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-N...2520_00558.JPG

Here is the outboard rear attach point. By far the biggest PITA to deal with.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-M...2520_00559.JPG


Part of post where my OPINION starts, take it for what you will...
Schroth mentioned using the Rally 3, it only has 1 rear attachment point. The reason was the desire to avoid any down force in the event of an accident that would break the seat back and try to make me shorter. I like 2 belts instead of one, looked at the combined angle of the 2 pulls, and the fact that this seat is strong enough to put an explosive device (air bag) in and still keep me safe.

Good to see some pics of it. That is an interesting set up you have there.

04Green

:worship::worship::worship::worship::worship::wors hip::worship::worship::worship::worship::worship:: worship::worship::worship::worship::worship::worsh ip:

My buddy tracks a lot and uses this in his BMW M Coupe.

CG-Lock CG Lock Performance Add On For Your Seat Belt

I saw it happen. 1985 Solo II Nationals Gurnee, IL, I was the chef course marshal. I don't remember what make/model the car was. I just remember it was British.

Car from 1980s and british. Not surprised lol. I will change my statement to - Its probably pretty damn hard to flip an RX8 on an autocross course.

On CG lock, until I tried the rally 4, I never believed the benefit associated with a lap belt. If you can get it right, that might be enough. I think Team said it first. I keep the left shoulder a little snug, right loose. But, the lap is right.

Also, @EricB, I think it would be easier to use a snap in / bolt in system.This is a product from takata under extra hardware. You bolt these down and then snap the harness onto them. http://www.takataracing.com/pimg/sm/01324.jpg

@ wolfe,

Those are cool. Schroth was the only vendor I found with an ASM belt when I got mine. Web site did say it was from TAKATA Europe, made in Germany, and interestingly enough, the hardware and installation drawings look almost identical to Schroth.

I really like the snap function. That was not available from Schroth. I guess for an installation you would run them through the hole in the seat, cross them, and attach to the relevant points.

I like the drift 3, but they might not fit through the seat holes.

Those snap-ins are a lot better looking that the Schroth quick fit.

@ Eric B, post pictures when done, sounds like 2 good options.

$200 TAKATA is still cool. While its not from Japan, its still TAKATA. I think another good option is Sparco. They make a good snap in belt just like the TAKATA drift II for $130. Or a Cam Lock 4 point for $230. Cam Lock is cool! haha.

Are the 2 shoulder straps far enough apart when passed through the seat like that? I think that might be another safety issue with this approach.

Have you tried the trick of sliding the seat back, pulling the normal belt to lock it, then sliding the seat forward again to keep the belt locked and tight across your lap and shoulder? This works very well for me. After a couple of initial attempts to get the amount of slack correct before moving the seat forward I can now lock myself down in about 15s and remain locked for a 20 minute track session. It works better than other cars I have tried since the seat is firm so you don't typically move enough to unlock the belt.

Yeah i think im going to go with the Drift II, i like how it clips in. What is your opinion on the 3inch belt going through the hole? I measured it today and at the base of the triangle it is around 2.1inches i think. It would have to bend and go through the hole. 2inch or 3inch???

my birthday is in 5 days so this might be a gift to myself :fingersx:

yeah i wish the takata was a camlock, do you know if you can add a anti-submarining strap as an add-on to the sparco harness? That way it can be converted into a legit racing harness if i ever decide to get a racing seat/ roll bar?

EDIT: it actually doesnt really matter, but i still would like to know... As far as legit harnesses go, i think the G-Force ones are very competitively priced for the weekend racer without a huge budget for belts. It is a safety item, so thats one aspect to it. But SFI cert's dont last very long compared to FIA certs on belts and some companies will re-web the belts if you send them in for a fee which is good. /end rant

I tried it, and i got it to work... but as soon as i shifted my bodyweight it loosened. It turned into a real hassle.

whatever, i was looking for a birthday gift to myself anyway around the $200 range.

do the TAKATA snap ins with the bolt on snap points. Im going to do that. probably. Unless I go with the Sparco... I have a few months to decide before I take it to the track. no biggie.