R3 in C stock questions
 

First off, I have been lurking on the forum long enough to know that search is my friend, and I have spent significant time searching but have been unable to find any answers specfically for the questions here. (I have found several other answers and the forum is a wealth of knowledge if you can sift through the years of info and testing provided by the members here.)

So the R3 is now in my parents driveway awaiting my redeployment at the end of November. I had lots of reasons for buying the car, not the least of which is that I can use it as a DD when I want /need to and it will still do the occaisional track day and not so occaisional autoX with minimum preparation. So now on to the questions:

1. I assume after reading the 2010 rules that if I replace the brake pads with Hawks and replace the brake fluid with track days in mind, it will not bump me out of the stock class?

2. I know I can replace the stock bilsteins with Koni yellows, but can't seem to find any comparison as to how the bilsteins fare in comparison. I looked and found a thread about Shinkas, but after his initial impression there was no follow up.

3. The point I just can't figure out from reading the rules and posts here is whether the R3 coming with the 19s from the factory means I have to keep 19s on the car to stay in the stock category. I am wondering if the fact that Sport-GT come with the 18s allows me to run 18" wheels. I know that STX allows for any wheel up to 9" width, but I am not interested in STX just yet.

I have some limited autoX experience years ago in a 93 Miata, and had a ball. Was doing it just long enough to get an idea of where I needed to improve, and that the 4 run streak I did on borrowed AutoX specific tires and wheels wasn't helping my technique any. So I went back to some high performance street tires and continued to improve technique. Then kids came, wars came, and I spent several years without a car worth taking to the track, and living in Germany and Korea, there weren't a lot of SCCA autocross events to attend.

Thanks in advance, looking forward to getting back into it.

1. You can use non-OE fluid and pads.

2. Don't know (but I like my Koni's)

3. Here's the excerpt which covers it:

...Stock Category cars must
be run as specified by the factory with only standard equipment as de-
fined by these Rules. This requirement refers not just to individual parts,
but to combinations thereof which would have been ordered together
on a specific car. Any other modifications or equipment will place the car
in Street Touring, Street Prepared, Street Modified, Prepared or Modi-
fied Categories as appropriate.

iaus10,

Thanks for the clarification, after going back and rereading the wheel section for stock, it says same diameter, width and offset as factory, combined with the excerpt means to stay in stock I need to be running 19x8 with roughly +50. I will likely just put on some max performance summer tires (BFGs more than likely) in a 245/35/19 for both DD and AutoX days. I can't justify spending the money on another set of 19x8 wheels for AutoX days only. Perhaps in a season or two I will make the switch to STX.

At some point I am sure I will want coilovers for track days, I suppose that will be the day I make the switch.

Thanks again.

Buy a cheap set of 9" x 17" wheels and put 255/40-17 Hankook RS-3 tires (only $130/each fron TireRack) on them for street use, then use the Oe wheels for Stock autox. When you switch to STX later you then swap the application use between them.

That sounds like a good plan, and when you go to TireRack, the default tire size is 255/40/17 when done as a wheel and tire package. According to tire sizing calculators though, both at miata net and at 1010 tires, total diameter stock is 26.1, and the 255/40 is 25, or a 4% difference, a 255/45 calcs out to 26.0, or .02%. Am I missing something, or is TireRacks default size just a little off?

You have much to learn, grasshopper ...

Yeah, indeed I do. . .

Was tired and thinking in terms of them as tires for the street. That said I understand now (a little late, yes) the value in the 255/40.

One would expect me to be a little more observant, the light finally clicked on as I read through Chike's PSS9 thread which had tons of good info.

It's the only suitable 17" size in that brand/model, has great grip, and great wear. The only potential issue is that it can't be used in low, near freezing temps. Just depends on where you live and/or if you'll use the car for winter driving

Not to derail this conversation but why would he want to use the R3 wheels over the 17" replacements for track/auto-x? I have been hunting for a set of 17x9s with the opposite idea in mind. Keeping the R3 19x8s for street and what will most likely be Enkie PFS-1s 17x9 for track. I too am of grasshopper level and still miss the pebble.

^Because he has to use the 19" wheels if he stays in C-Stock...If he moves to STX later on then he can switch to the 17x9 or 18x9...

Yep, plan is to run C Stock for a few events at least. Should give me a good "base" feel for the car, before I move to coilovers and 17" wheels. That will be the first mod to the car that will take me out of the stock class. I am going to order the RPF1s with the RS3s and will use those for track days I think and just run the stock wheels with 245s for street and AutoX.

I don't think I will need a dedicated wheel/tire setup for stock, just not going to be at that level after not doing any high performance 4 wheel driving in nearly a decade. While there is some carryover from bikes, it (for me at least) doesn't directly translate.

I will be living in Savannah, GA, so not much of a winter really here, and certainly before I make the move to STX the weather will be warm again.

You will be surprised at how good the Hankooks are for higher speed events. They handle heat well and will give the eveready bunny a run for his money i.e. they keep going, and going, and going ..... $130 each is a steal

You are going to have to track with us at Roebling Road also-------:)
We will come and get you.
OD

I really appreciate the support/advice/guidance here. The more I look at C Stock vs STX, the more I think I may just go to STX right off the bat, which is likely to be sometime early next year. Getting back just in time for the holidays, will have some catch up time with the kids, getting a place to live, moving in, etc., will eat up the first couple months or so.

As far as having to come get me for RR, its been something I really wanted to do for a long time, arm twisting and/or coming to get me won't be be necessary. You may, however regret your decision, the umpteenth time you see my tails. . .as you lap me yet again. :lol:

Anyway, I just want to make it clear that I am at the weekend enthusiast, low time end of the spectrum insofar as seat time goes. Have read tons, and done a few AutoX events in a Miata and a few in a GTI (FF, yes I know), a couple laps of the Ring in Germany (in a borrowed M3 at 7/10ths), but due to changing circumstances, I have some more time and some more cash available and plan to use it getting some more seat time. The other experience I have is a handful of track days and a two day school on the two wheeled end of the spectrum.

Under a month to go now before I see the states and the 8.

It's also very important to decide what you really want to do.

If you just want to enjoy the car, then go nuts with mods. The car will be a blast pretty much no matter what.

If you want to compete, you may want to think about mods a little more.

If your local region has a street tire index class, you may be best off just rocking stock class. No investment needed, but a $70 performance alignment would make the car a lot more fun (and help your tire wear.) The car will still be a blast at an open track with just a brake pad swap.

STX is a lovely class, because you get to put the toys on the car, and not have to change tires. As a bonus, the 17" tires will be much cheaper than the 19s. The downside is building a truly competitive STX car is expensive, and comes with a list of tradeoffs in everyday use of the car. You'll end up with an ultimately faster HPDE car, and the adjustability to tailor the car for each situation if you're into that sort of thing.

Going balls-out CS on R-comps would be a big tire and wheel budget. Plus, R comps are really difficult to learn (or re-learn) to drive on, since they mask mistakes much more than street tires.

Not a wrong choice in the bunch, just something to think about.

I am aware that there are less and more expensive routes to go for racing in general, and also aware that once driver skill becomes the limiting factor, then even in a well restricted, "low cost racing class," the amount of money spent can still be very significant to eke out every last bit of the car. Good news for me (my wallet) is that I won't be at that level for a while yet.

STX is definitely where I am going to be at some point in the near future, the rules in STX allow for anything I would do to the car at any rate. Alignment is a given, as pointed out, is probably the most cost effective performance "mod" that you can make. Suspension upgrades have always been the first upgrade on both my bikes and cars. Aesthetic upgrades i.e. wings, body kits and the like are not on the list. Looking at the options available, the plan will be to start with a set of coilovers (PSS9s more than likely), dedicated wheels/tires, brake pads, and fluid. This should set me up just fine for both track duty and STX. This will also leave me with a streetable car for those nice mornings when you wake up and just want to take the 8.

Either way, just looking forward to being back, and picking up performance driving as a hobby again.

wonder if C-stock allows to run wider width tires on stock wheels?
any suggestions on a good set of tires for 19 inches that wont empty my bank?

^You can run any size tire in stock class as long as it fits on the stock size wheel...

On a stock wheel, either Hankook's in 245mm or go with the Kumho V710s or Hoosier A6..

No limit on tire size, 245s should fit fine. As long as stock wheel size is the same, no problems.

And for the 710s or A6s you can go a LOT wider!

I run 285/30R18s on my 18x8/18x8.5 on the 350Z.

(OK, that's not completely true -- I run 295/30R18 A6s when I can.)

so to bump an old thread what tire size are you guys running on your R3s in CS?

235/35/19 - 25.6" diam at about $1300/set
265/35/19 - 26.2" diam at about $1350/set
295/35/19 - 26.1" diam at about $1400/set

(stock diam is 26.1" - do you think it needs shorter or taller by chance as well while we're here...? )

The 295s seem tempting but will they even fit the wheel and car itself?

When Jason Saini ran the car, he used the 235/35/19 size iirc.

Based on how much shorter 2nd gear is on the '09+ RX-8's, I'd suspect the bigger tires with the taller OD to be faster on most courses (wouldn't need to do 2-3-2 shifting).

My $0.02...