fastmike

I have a set of stocker's dyno'd....Fronts SUCK.
Pretty much "blown" when they are brand new..LOL!
I will send in the Mazdaspeeds(also manufactured by Tokico) and see if they are any better.
At least there can not be a protest about them for size/length/whatever.
They "feel" stiffer in compression but me pushing down on them is not a good test.
Aftermarket "real" dampers are going to be tough to build. Rear bodies are LONG!!!
FM

RX3+5

I'm down for a set of Koni Sports.

Vince

fastmike

You should get the Koni's dyno'd when they come in and we can compare graphs.
What do you think?
FM

draco067

I'm a newbie - what does dynoing a shock entail?

RX3+5

The only dyno that I know of is at Ground Control 30 twisty miles away. And I don't care for Jay all that much.
I have been thinking of getting this http://www.shockdyno.com/index.html just for testing for a year!

Vince

Imp

Koni is coming out with shocks for the 8. You wouldn't have to worry about getting them dynoed after you get them... Koni should have the graphs available.

--kC

clyde

I have dyno printouts comparing my DA Konis at different settings with the OEM Tokicos. I tire scanning them before, but the colors make it tough to read. Maybe I can recreate the graphs this weekend if I have time. Even if I do, I'm not sure how helpful that would be since I'm not sure that the rebound valving is exactly the same as the production SAs. I also don't know where bump will be valved on the production shocks either.

Imp

Yeah, I'd wait until Koni has their printouts. They may have made adjustments for the OTS SAs before going to production.

--kC

clyde

In a nut shell, a shock dyno measures the rate of shock compression and extension for a given amount of force applied to it. When dynoing a shock, the shock is subjected to a large number of differing amounts of force and each response is measured and then plotted on a chart.

magixpuma

But have you compared it with the springs also doesnt that have to do with compression rate also. Jeez if your saying the shocks i just got are no diff. argh!!

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

No, he is saying that the physical dimensions of the MS shocks are the same as the OEM shocks - in other words, the lenght of the body, the distance from the lower mount to the spring perch, etc. This is important because for SCCA stock class autocross, you can swap the shocks out but they cannot change the spring perch location, etc. So the MS shocks are legal for BS (but not legal BS, hah hah).

Now, the information you gather from a shock dyno (which is much different than an engine dyno) helps you understand what kinds of forces the shock generates when in use. Once fastmike gets his MS dyno plots, if he's good enough to post them (hint, hint) you will see that the MS shocks are much different than the factory sport shocks, in that they generate greater forces under the same circumstances as the OEM units would. This is what you payed for.

BTW, as an example until some RX-8 plots are posted, here are some dyno curves for Tokico Illuminas shocks for a Miata:

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/292195/3

The graphs show how much force is generated as a function of shaft speed - which is to say, how fast the shaft is moving in and out of the body of the shock.

George

magixpuma

thats what i thought he meant thanks for clearing that up.

fastmike

Shocks have been mailed.
The Guy is busy this week but should have results in a couple of weeks.
I will be pissed if they are identical to stockers.
I doubt it though.
FM

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

Waste of money.... The Konis will ship the first week of April... About the time you get yours back. :p The bad news is the Konis are only singles. The rears must be removed to adjust, the rears are like the old school konis, push up and turn.

Imp

At this time.. better than nothing.

fastmike

Koni's might increase the performance of the car BUT they might make it slower too.
Nothing magical about Koni yellows.
Koni's are 2X the $$$ too.
No thanks.
Mazdaspeeds are just an interim damper anyways. If the car is going to play nationally, it is going to need $4K minimum invested in "real" dampers imo.
That is just the way it is now.
FM

Imp

That's the way it is now? Koni's might slow the car down?

And you base your experience with Konis on the RX-8 how? They're only in a few people hands that did some protype testing.

For stock class auto-x cars, the production OTS Koni SAs for the 8 around going to be around $600-$700.
To convert them to DAs, it's going to be around another $1400... and you can pick the valving. I add that up and don't get $4k.

However, are there better shocks out there for more? Yes. Moton, Ohlns, etc... Yes, you pay a premium for what... maybe a 2-5% performance increase over the Konis? (This has historically been proven). My standard response is 'Drive better'.

Sure, if you want to start going to adjustable coil-overs, things get more expensive, but then you have more options out there too.

Where there's a will, there's a way. No matter how much money you throw at parts, you'll never be the fastest.

StrokerAce

Mikey know that. Thats why he's fastmike not fastestmike :D

salituro64

Why does MS require adding the lowering springs & shocks together if the shocks are the same size as OEM?

Dark8

Different damping for the different spring rates.

fastmike

I am just saying that no one yet knows if the Koni's are going to be good.
Probably better than stockers though.
Are they going to be legal dimensions?
How many different models of shocks came on the 8?
I have not looked in the part books yet.
Are the spring perches in EXACTLY the correct position?
Blah,Blah,Blah.

I have had both good and bad experiences with Koni "yellows" too.
I own two sets right now.
Revalved D/A's for my TT(sold the extra set of S/A's I had)
S/A's for my Miata.
Bilsteins getting revalved for MiataR.
I think that this is going to be the route to go on that car...for now...

I agree that going to a high end damper is only good for a couple of % increase in performance.
Each car is a little different too. Some respond better than others.
BUT! A couple of % is MASSIVE nationally if you are going for first place and it is worth the $$$.
Total costs for a year of racing is big $$$ anyways when you start adding in travel cost etc.

We are progressing with the 8's development and my ES Miata R at the same time.
I am still trying to get my MiataR to even be on the same second as a certain 93MR2ABS here locally.
Going to try again this Sunday.
I am still not certain that the Miata's can run with these "new" MR2's.
I might abandon the Miata if I can not get there.

I would type Fastestmike but it is too long...LOL!

Anyways, good matchup with Isley/Bauer in SD to see some stuff...

FM

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

$4k for stock class shocks :p Dont need them. We tried $2k Penske Singles, $4k ARE Penske doubles and of all the combos my C4 was always at its best on the off the shelf Koni. I have seen a set of nearly $4k Koni 2812s on a RX8, I think it was about a month before the first one failed. You go ahead and drop the big $$$s on those shocks and I guess you will have to spend another year in your PJs. lol I will wait for the konis. Not that any of this matters..... I still have not getten to race the damn thing yet. The Pro should be good practice for SD.

p.s. you already made you one trip to natls, we know you wont show for another 5 years.

fastmike

I doubt that it will take 5 years.
Strip clubs save me so much money in Kansas that I almost HAVE to go!

I would like to see that place paved though. What a MESS!

We'll see how the Mazdaspeeds dyno.

Had the baby yet?
If so, congrats and time to get a FJR kart.

FM

typerr

I agree. I have driven that RX8 with the Koni 2812's and went about a tenth or so faster than in my own car with the stock shocks. Our setups are a bit different but comparing specs and dollars spent, her car should have been significantly faster if the shocks made a difference comparable to the $$ spent. The car with the 2812's definately had a stiffer, livelier feel to it and I look forward to getting a set of SA Konis for my own car.

Tom

ULLLOSE

iTrader: (1)

The clubs only save you money there because of the dogs working in them. :D

No doubt we need a new surface.... Maybe in 06 there will be space for us at heartland park.

Any day for the kid.....Due date is March 13th, oh yeah same weekend as the SD tour. If the kid comes early I have been told I wont make the events. Darn kid trying to screw up my weekend already. Yeah our kid will codrive with Schotz's.