HPDE or skip barber?
 

Hi

I've never been to the track and would like to learn. Should I just go for the HPDEs or should I fork out extra for a skip barber course? The ones I'm considering are the One Day Driving School, Introduction to Racing or the One-Day Combo program. The one day driving school seems to teach other interesting (to me) stuff other than running around the track. But they are pretty expensive. Feedback and opinions appreciated!

-dodo

http://www.skipbarber.com/drivingsch...fault.asp?sel=

ONE DAY DRIVING SCHOOL

This program features a classroom session on vehicle dynamics, identifying why cars behave the way they do. But the bulk of the day is spent outdoors in cars. Learn and practice slides and recoveries on a skid pad, threshold braking and accident avoidance techniques. Using the V8 Dodge Dakota pickup truck, you'll practice slides and recovery while the nimble Dodge Neon powers you through lane-toss exercises. The highlight of the program tests your newfound skills in an exhilarating autocross session utilizing the V10-powered Dodge Viper SRT-10.

$795

Introduction to Racing

An exciting taste of open-wheel racing, this three-hour program features classroom instruction and 60 minutes of lapping in a 2.0 liter Formula Dodge racecar, a car capable of propelling you to 60mph in under 4.5 seconds. Our most popular program, INTRODUCTION TO RACING is geared towards anyone who wants to enjoy speed from the cockpit of a racecar in a safe, controlled environment. If speed limits annoy you, let our instructors set the pace in this fun, experiential program. Fast-paced families have found INTRODUCTION TO RACING an ideal way to celebrate a birthday or significant event. INTRO programs can also be used as a stepping stone for more serious race enthusiasts. Drivers with an eye on our Three Day Racing School get a headstart on their understanding of vehicle dynamics, proper race line, race-style downshifting, braking and cornering techniques. Everything you need to get started is provided at the track.

$695

ONE-DAY COMBO PROGRAM

Our newest course combines elements from two popular programs; the One-Day Driving School and Introduction to Racing. Drive four different vehicles to learn or hone your performance driving skills. This all-day session features threshold braking, slides and recovery exercises using the Dodge Neon, Dakota Quad Cab truck and Viper SRT-10 and on-track action in the 2.0 liter Formula Dodge racecar. Like all Skip Barber programs, you steadily develop your confidence over the course of the day. Buckle in for autocross, strap in for the race track and unlock your potential in a safe, controlled environment. Students who want to go further are eligible to participate in a Car Control Clinic.

$1,195 - $1,295

if you can swing it do the combo, taking a viper around the track would be a blast!, not to mention the formula dodge car

Seat time is really what's important. I think you'll get more seat time for your dollar by going with regular HPDEs in your car. Plus, the only programs you listed that get you "onto a track" are the Intro to Racing and the combo one. Honestly, I think those programs are more for people "looking to get a taste or thrill." If you want to start the long path towards driving excellence, you should just start going to HPDEs.

I'd say you would get more out of HPDE's since you'll be tracking your own car (an excellent car in this case ;) ), so you will learn more about how YOUR CAR handles under high speed conditions, and is easier to transfer what you learned on the track to make you a safer driver on the street

the only reason i can think of taking a Skip Barber school is if your car is unfit for track driving (which the RX-8 is DEFINITELY capable of), or you are taking the class out of your driving range.

3 day course for skippy, I'm a skippy grad and I loved it, Less than a couple monhs after and I have my SCCA liscence and I'm building a track 8!

I would not put it quite like that. Time driving the car is important but the quality of the instruction is even more important.....

^I concur, you learn more in less seat time if you have proper instruction

but any seat time is better than no seat time :D

To bo honest with you, I think you should save the money for some nice Hoosier tires and go auto X and you will have much more fun auto Xing the season than 1-2day events. This way you will learn your car.

but autox can't simulate the high speed adrenaline rush that you get on a race track.... plus it's over so quickly... a total of ~4 minutes of 'seat time' per event... that's like just a tickle...

I think it depends on what you want to accomplish. If you really want to get the feeling of real race driving go for the Formula Dodge course. There's a big difference between driving a street car (even the viper) and a formula car. Driving techniques are extremely different and to be honest nothing compares to the refinement of driving a formula car.

Other than having fun, I don't see a lot to be learned from one day of driving a heavy truck (Dakota), a front wheel drive car (Dodge Neon) and a rear wheel powered car (Viper). But maybe that's also a good course for what it's worth.

just remember to drive a car at the big track you can afford to roll into a ball.

james

I took the Skip Barber 1 day driving class at Laguna Seca. It was a lot of fun. But it wasn't worth $800.

First thing we did was have 30-45 minutes of classroom time. He explained stuff like apex and weight transfer. It wasn't that useful.

1) they watered the parking lot and you got into a pickup truck. First, they teach you what understeer is by having you drive in a circle faster and faster until you reach the understeer point. Then you learn about oversteer and how to recover from a skid. The instructor will bull the emergency brake, initiating a skid, and you have to recover from it. You do a lot of laps recovering from skids twice per lap.

2) Threshold braking. This was pretty useless. You got into a Neon and drove as fast as you could (reaching about 40 mph). Then you try to brake the car as hard as possible without locking the brakes. Since the RX8 has ABS, this one isn't as useful as it could be.

3) You drive around a small obstacle course in a Neon (with an Automatic). There is a bowl on the hood and a tennis ball in it. The goal is to drive around the course without having the ball leave the bowl. The aim is to teach smooth driving. This was surprisingly hard.

4) The most fun part. We drive Autocross. First in a Neon, to get a feel of the course. Then in a Viper. This was fun as hell. The course allowed us to get to about 70-80 on the straights. Unfortunately, you only got 6-8 laps in the Viper.

As I said, it was a lot of fun. But behind-the-wheel time, especially with the Viper, was lacking.

Also, after lunch, each of the 4 instructors took a Neon out with 3 students as passengers and took 2 laps of Laguna Seca. This was exciting for those who've never been in a car driven by a race car driver (all the instructors are current or former racers). The cars were bumper to bumper the whole time. Afterwards, I asked the instructor how close they were to the limit of the Neon. He said they were driving at 9/10ths.

And no, there is no track time on Laguna seca. (This might have been beacuse there was another class (3-day racing) going on at the same time and they were using the track.)

Another question: What is HPDE?

so no actual track time DRIVING the car on Laguna Seca? what a waste! (that ball in the bowl technique is cool though, i might have to try that myself lol)

the $160 I spent for the Mazda Track Day at Laguna Seca was way better IMO (thanks rotarynews and corksport for setting it up!)

I've done two HPDEs, one at Watkins Glen, one at Limerock, both in my 8.
Here's some quick food for thought.

WG:
Total cost including track/travel/hotel = $1000
Days on track: 2
Hours on Track: 4.5
Personal instructor time: 3.0 (solo 1.5)

LR:
Total cost including track/travel/hotel = $400
Days on track: 1
Hours on Track: 1.3
Personal instructor time: 1.3

IMO for the small outlays, I've gotten in a very short time (2 months) experience I never dreamed I would have, with excellent seasoned race car instructors telling me JUST how to follow the line on each track, while critiquing/correcting my driving, in my own car (now I'm beginning to realize what/why and how to mod it should I decide to), while having the thrill of a lifetime (you only get to do it the first time once :D )!

To me the alternative 'school' mentioned here is more putting you "through" THEIR fun joy-riding experience, rather than learning real-world useable skill building with MY OWN 8 on a professional race track. Which would you rather remember and build your skills on?? Thought so. :)

FWIW, I'm going to go try the Spring Mountain Motorsports 3 day course. Part of what you have to be looking at is, are/do you want to be using your own car, or do you want a school vehicle? That makes for a huge difference in cost. If you want to go with a "shool car" do you care what kind of vehilce is used? This can run the gamut from school supplied Porsches (the Porsche Driving Experience, comes in 1 or 2 day versions www.porschedriving.com ) to various Dodge Products (skip barber) to race specific (www.panozracingshool.com & www.derekdaly.com) to Corvettes (e.g. Spring Mountain f/k/a Briggs-Smith &/or www.corvetteschool.com)

There are a lot of others, both big and small. On a pure cost per day (CPD) analysis, the Panoz and Spring Mountain seem to offer a lot of bang for the $$, but there are a lot of other elements that go into your decision matrix like:
1 What kind of track facility will the school be held at?
2 Quality of the program design and instructors etc.?
3 Any particular goals, i.e. working towards an SCCA license? I think some of the schools can "sign" you off for a lot of the requirements if that's what you're interested in.

HTH

As someone else stated, the quality of the instruction is what is important. After doing a skip course, your HPDEs will be more beneficial. Also, the 3 day skip course can get you an SCCA license. With that you can skip the "green" run group at HPDE (though if it's your first time on a new track, get an instructor even if you run with the red group)

I agree. Seat time is always good, but good instruction is even better.