Finally auto-xed my 8
 

Had an auto-x yesterday, about 53-60 degrees (windy and cloudy) over the course of the day, and 8 runs at about 72 seconds each run on a mile long course.

Mods: Stock everything.
Tire pressure: 44front, 42 rear no TPS warning. :) (TPS warning came after my last run, the tires had gotten up to 52 PSi in the front) I never adjusted them during the event. I wanted to find the limit for tire pressure before TPS if the tire pressure increased while running. Found it! So basically, 44-47 on the street tires felt the best.

1st initial impressions: The car is fun. :) 1st run.. cold tires, new car. Power-on oversteer city.. more like ice. 3rd turn, mental note: 'Tame the right foot.'

The balance on the car in the tight stuff (16pace slaloms) is not bad at all in 2nd gear.. it's really nice to be in the low revs with no torque that it actually keeps the car very controllable. Keeping the power steady in the slaloms, you can toss the car and have it come around the cones, but when you nail the throttle to exit the slalom, it builds up gradually not upsetting the car at all (ie: no torque)

We had two sweepers, one was faster, longer, and a little tighter than the other. The 1st was a slight decreasing radius, and taking it at speed, plow. Taking it at 3/4 speed.. plow. Taking it at 1/2 speed, no power. And coming out fast was important because there was an increasing radius turn where you were full throttle at the top of 2nd before having to brake for a tight slalom... so maintaining as much speed (or not losing speed where you shouldn't) was key.

The trick was getting in and either lifting or even a little trail brake to transfer the weight to the outside front tire for grip and then it just carved under power... Not exactly how it would have been in my old car.. but it'll do. :D This netted me hearing the shift beep before I had to brake whereas plowing in the 1st three runs I didn't hear a thing.

So right now, sweepers = plow unless something is done mid-turn, and slow slaloms are, what I will call, 'off boost' (No low end).

For the faster slaloms, lane changes, chicago boxes... theis is where the car is a hoot.
Fast slaloms, give up a little for the beginning where I can get into the entrance, get around the 1st set and 3rd to last cone, I fed throttle... and it stuck. I was leaving slaloms faster than I ever had, and the car had grip in the rear by that time with warm tires.

You can really feel the weight transfer do it's thing in this car. (This is a shortcoming of the stock car.... and needs work) The stock suspension is soft like that. But the car settles rather non-abruptly and again, just says "ok, what do you what me to do next?" I know there were sections I could have gone faster.. but I'm just learning the limits of the car. So in the lane changes.. the car was not a problem. Chicago box... the car just stuck. Again.. no issues getting in and out of it... and I had to take it flat out because thhis element appears just before 2 gates befor ethe finish... so I was exiting at speed, WOT, and hit third gear about 20 feet after the exit of the chicag box before the finish. (It was about 19 paces for the Chicago Box)

At one point on my 3rd run, I trid taking a fast left hander a little faster then I should have under power and the back end came out... my passenger who runs an S2K, said... "I can't believe you saved that" Honestly, I can't either.. the car just communicated so well that it was saying "unwind the wheel before I REALLY come around on you" :)

So yes, this car needs less roll. FSB and endlinks will help out a bit with that. As will struts.

I was about 2 seconds off some fast guys in the region (national drivers in STS) whereas in my wagon, I was about 1 second faster than them in my old car (WRX Wagon). So overall, I'm pleased, but I also know this car will need some more work, both in mods AND driver. (Evo school... here I come again) :)

Tires, struts, swaybar, alignment are going to totally transform this car. I mean really... going from 225/45 street tires to 265-285 R-Compounds. It's a no-brainer.

I have one more event this weekend and that's it until April with the car. I don't know if I'll be running this car or someone elses this weekend (It's a team event with a different type structure than a regular auto-x).

We autocrossed ours yesterday, too. On Hoosiers, front bar, slight alignment tweek. Scratch times (even mine) faster than Joe Goeke. The car is soft - needs shocks - but was very fun. I'll let Ron fill in the details, if he wishes... :)

What size Whoserdaddies?

Putting "struts" on an RX-8 would truely transform it into something.... ;)

Seriously, good write up. I found the car very neutral with a tendency to take on a four wheel drift through high speed sweepers at 42f/36r (OEM Bridgestone) tire presures. And I agree totally that if the back end steps out the car is amazingly easy to recover. :D

Struts/shocks.. whatever. :)

275/35/18.

I knew winning nats was good for something - couldn't have afforded them right now and buy another set of stock wheels & the bar, so free big fat hooters was VERY good! :D

We're patiently awaiting the new 710's. Latest word was they go into production "soon" and could be here as early as late Jan/early Feb. Not holding my breath, though, that boat from Korea is awful slow...

Nice. :)

I can't wait for the 710s.. but then agian, only more more event up here this weekend and the car sees no action until April. So.. as long as they're here for the end of March. :)

--KC

I'm not even going to get into how I did at the same event:)

very good write up though KC. I agree that the chicago boxes and faster turning slaloms are where this car shines. I'm not great at slaloms anyway- I used the trailbraking approach.

but once again- I'm wildly inconsistent

Another thing we found out was that it's hard to get camber out of the front of the car when the bushings, etc. are really stiff still when it's new. I'd hold off on the alignment until spring so you can beat on the car all winter & loosen it up...

his car will be off the road in the winter- as will mine:)

Ahh good advice. I'll just heat them up with a hairdryer then. :D

Any regrets thus far KC? Nice writeup, and get some KYB AGX asap ;) :p

I spun mine yesterday. So, two spins in ~100 runs. I can live with that. :D

Great write up KC. I kind of wish I had been able to do a couple autocrosses before getting the shocks so I'd have a better frame of reference, The "really feel the weight transfer do it's thing" sounds like the one complaint I had about the car on the street. The almost Buicklike floaty feeling hitting bumps/depressions mid curve. Not a problem in my car any more. Now, it just transfers weight where I want it when i want it...and the driver doesn't get in his way. :cool:

I havn't autocrossed yet but during a fun run on a mountain road in North Georgia (supposedly one of the top motorcycle roads in the country) I got a chance to feel the quick transitions in weight you mention. I have an RB setup (see signature). The road had many switchbacks with banking. Taking these tight corners in 3rd gear the car switched directions with grace. In the transition from left to right the road crests for the gentle banking and I expected that to launch the car or at least upset the balance. It didn't! I did enter a few curves slightly hot and had DSC kick in. I am not as experienced in autocrossing so I wasn't going to trust my abilities yet. Besides, instead of hitting a cone, I would hit the side of a mountain, a tree, or worse! Sorry to hijack this thread but I do agree that sways and stiffer springs help the floaty feeling and allow better transitions in cornering.

As Annie noted, we ran our car yesterday as well.

First off, I wouldn't put a lot of weight on beating Joe Goeke straight up.... They were on A3S04s that have over 100 runs on them, and they've been battling handling issues (though I thought we fixed that at the last event.) Joe spun on his 3rd and 4th runs, so we really only have his first two to compare to. I did however run faster times on my first two than he did on his.

Overall, the car felt well balanced at speed, though it did have some understeer issues. This is mostly attributible to the lack of front camber, as we were only able to get about 0.9 degrees out of the front. Others have been able to get 1.5, so we're hoping that after driving the car awhile the suspension will settle.

I also think that good shocks will make this car work a lot better, as the springs and shocks are a bit soft, so with increased compression on the shocks, it should make the car a fair amount quicker.

Overall, it was a lot of fun to drive. I'd recommend it to anyone. Now let's see how it fares against the 968 next year in BS..... :cool:

Ron

mazda just announced the 100,000 rx-8 built. how many 968's were imported? when i was shopping for one a few years ago, i think less than 1000 6 sp coupes were imported. it was hard to find one.

slightly unrelated but interesting coincidence- i test drove mckee's 968, then almost bought the marinus's 968, and now andy is racing shauna's old rx-7!

james

968s are fairly rare, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that they're hard to find. There were more than 2000 coupes imported to the States. A quick AutoTrader.com search reveals 18 for sale.

I expect that at least a few will be unearthed this season...

Steve

Yeah, I did exactly that same search a few weeks back and was shocked to see how many were for sale (lots of Cabs though). There are at least 3 coupes missing from that list from when I searched, and two of those were ones that I was thinking would be a good autox car, one in particular with some exterior/interior damage that was dirt cheap. I expect to see some show up for serious campaigns, but overall I think the 968s days are done.

right, 2000 coupes, but how many were 6 speeds? i just mean to say that regionally, 968's arent going to be a factor. nationally, thats a different story. what i remember from driving it was that despite the 3 liter motor, there wasnt a lot of torque down low.

also, with 6speed rx8's going brand new for $25K, a $15K 10 year old 4 banger porsche doesnt seem all that attractive (to me anyway). unless it has a big weight advantage.

james

The 8 and 968 weigh about the same. The advantage the 968 has over the 8 is the toque, especially if you do ProSolo.

I'm hoping that the east coast doesn't see any until Nationals. :D

Does Matt Murray still have his???

The numbers I have from this forum and others suggest that the RX-8 is somewhat lighter. Tim's car weighed 2854 lbs. with a heavier-than-stock exhaust and a lot of gas; it looks like 2800 lbs. is a reasonable target for a fully-prepped car. The 968 numbers I've seen have been high 2800s for non-M030 cars, and low 2900s for M030 cars.

Without actually ever having driven my own 968 yet, and only having driven an RX-8 once (thanks Banannie!), I'd agree that the 968's advantage is torque. I'd also add that it sounds like you can get a lot more camber out of the 968 than you can out of the RX-8.

Rest assured that Banannie, ronbauer, and I will be testing these assumptions once my car shows up. :)

Steve

'Rest assured'? I'd rather not have you test the assumptions at all. :p

I don't know if Matt still has his or not, he's been playing in his little red car. I'll ask him Saturday.

We'll be able to do back to back testing at local NWR events, but since it's the plan to have the 968 fully set up (rather than the partial set up on the 8) it will be the one travelling to the big events. So given our limited selection of lots (and weather), we'll know what appears fastest on soggy NW asphalt :p

Are you comming down to Portland this Saturday? It would be nice to not be the only RX-8 for a change.